Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I've said it many times now, but if she wasn't such an ideologue on the abortion issue, I wouldn't be as aggressive as I have been. When I mentioned to RT and others about ignoring the distinctions being made, that's what I'm talking about.>> Sorry. As I've said before, I just flat don't care. She has no control over that. No president or vice president does. Don't tell me about the power to appoint Supreme Court judges. We've had republican presidents for 20 of the past 28 years and they've been unable to come up with a court that would overturn Roe vs Wade. No Supreme Court will ever overturn Roe vs Wade. Ever. Any change to this country's abortion policy will need to come via an ammendment to the Constitutin and ratification by the states. That is as it should be. I personally am opposed to abortion except for cases of rape and incest. On the other hand I am the first one to recognize that it is legal both under our current law and the Constitution. If the law is to be changed the Consistution will need to be. And we all know that just ain't going to happen. But even if it did, the President and Vice President would have no power over the decision. So Palin can say any damned thing she wants. It makes no difference. Most politicians somewhere along the line have said a dozen different things about abortion. McCain was for it before he was against it. Makes no difference. It is like worrying about Palin expressing a believe that Saturn should no longer be considered a planet. Makes no difference because she can do nothing about it. So stop tossing out the crappy abortion thing like some kind of trump card. It isn't. There are many very good reasons not to want Palin to be Vice President. That is not one of them.
Originally Posted By dshyates "With that type of income he probably left over fear of Obama style taxes." Well, he is voting for McCain. Based solely on the color of his skin. My uncle is a good southern gentleman.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Yes, you are SO right! Every time someone refers to my political predilection as idiocy I should simply slap myself in the face and scream; “Hey… Get over yourself” I’m sure that’s what everyone else does here on the WE board.<< Except that's not what I was referring to, but nice attempt at a bait and switch. I made no reference to your politics, but your characterization that I must've obviously been talking all about you. And you know it, but it's clear from your point by point reply that you're someone much more interested in scoring "points" off opponents online than simply having a discussion. >>C’mon, THIS is the WE, you can take it… You’re a regular here, you’re fine with SPP calling McCain/Palin supporter’s “idiots.” Are you not? Or is it just the opposing political views of relative newcomers using horrendous words like “arrogant” that offends you so. So much that you falsely accuse them of “righteous outrage.” Not angrily, of course… but in a happy-go-lucky sort-of-way.<< Of course I can take it. But if someone shows up to jump in the fray with insults and poor reasoning, then acts as if they're above the fray while criticizing everyone else for doing the same things they are, I'll mention it. And you can claim that doing so makes me angry all you like. As I've reiterated before, conservatives seem to have a hard time realizing that just because they believe something, doesn't make it so. I guess that applies here too.
Originally Posted By ecdc Anyway, after that awkward diversion, back to the OT. No one has been able yet to explain why we shouldn't be deeply disturbed by Sarah Palin. We've heard references, with no attempt at analysis, to "religious bigotry." We've heard that she's just the VP so it doesn't really matter. In other words, she *is* as crazy as we say, but it doesn't matter because... well that still hasn't really been explained. No one's bothered to say why she's actually going to be good for the job. We're just hearing a lot of defensiveness. Is that really what we want in our leaders? "I can demonstrated that all these negative things aren't really that big of a deal." Wrong, but ok. Let's hear some positives.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Palin is the best possible choice McCain could have made... both for him politically and for the good of our country. The conservative base was likely going to sit this one out. If McCain had any chance of getting elected he HAD to pick someone who would appeal to the base. He could have picked someone like Huckabee or Pawlenty. Both good hard core conservatives with a considerable amount of credibility. If elected they would have very likely had some real influence in pulling our country to the right. Obviously, this influence would have been even greater if either of them became President. Would McCain want that? Hell no!! The man is a centrist Republican and the original maverick. The last thing he wants is someone with far right ideology who has the ability to pull his administration that way. What to do... what to do??? McCain had an AHA MOMENT!! You choose a running mate who will appeal to the far right but have absolutely no credibility with anyone else. That way he will gain the support of the base and win the election, but won't actually have to act on any of that right-wing gibberish like he might have had to do if he chose someone like Pawlenty or even Huckabee. So McCain can send Palin out looking all pretty and giving speeches about being a Hockey Mom and stuff but not really have to listen to anything she says. McCain has watched Bush and Cheney for the last eight years and knows the LAST thing he wants is someone who actually tries to run the show. So it's all good. McCain will live through his first term and then we will get to elect Hillary in 2012. ;-)
Originally Posted By ecdc >>McCain will live through his first term<< Willing to bet your rights on that, are you? But fortunately, we won't have to worry about that because good people like you will come to your senses and vote McCain You live in a swing-state, RT. It's not too late to come back from the Dark Side! I know at the last minute you'll seize the Emperor by the collar and toss him over the side.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Palin is the best possible choice McCain could have made... both for him politically and for the good of our country." Absolute bullcrap. "So stop tossing out the crappy abortion thing like some kind of trump card. It isn't. There are many very good reasons not to want Palin to be Vice President. That is not one of them." My point went right over your head. It is THE best example of how twisted and convoluted her thought processes are. The woman can't think for herself, and now she's not being allowed to, anyway. She allows others to tell her what to think, and that's pathetic. You're making excuses because you're supporting this ticket for your own self-interests. "Sorry. As I've said before, I just flat don't care." What a shame.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Willing to bet your rights on that, are you?>> Trust and hope is really what the whole election comes down to, isn't it? I trust McCain far more with our nation's defense than I do Obama. I agree we need some change in direction, but I just can't go with Obama's wild-eyed optimism. I'm not at all convinced we can make everything all good by sitting down and talking with our enemies. His plan to halt further development of all weapons systems, including a missile defense, is just downright scary. When our number one security concern right now is the development of nuclear weapons by rogue nations, what the hell sense does it make to eliminate the one way we would have to defend ourselves against an attack? Sure, if Russia decides it's tired of pissing with us and sends 1,000 missiles our way the missile defense is not going to work. That is not what it is intended to do. If North Korea or Pakistan or Iran or whomever sends 4 or 5 nukes our way we can likely blast them all out of the sky. We can do that IF development continues on our anti-missile defense. If not, we can hope they don't aim very well. It is very unlikely that McCain would die during his first term. Frankly I would far rather take a 10% chance that Palin will be making defense decisions than a 100% chance that Obama will. Obama means well. In 4-8 years he may get rid of his rose colored lenses and see the world for the very dangerous place that is. I'm not willing to take a chance on him now. I trust McCain and hope that he lives. That to me is far better than trusting Obama and having to hope that me and my family live.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<So it's all good. McCain will live through his first term and then we will get to elect Hillary in 2012.>> O M G ! Trippy is a PUMA! ;-)
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<You're making excuses because you're supporting this ticket for your own self-interests.>> No, I did the tax calculator thing and would do better under Obama's tax plan than under McCain's tax plan. Any possible change in how capital gains and dividends are treated would have far less impact than Obama's overall lower taxes on people earning less than $250K. But I remain with McCain for the reasons indicated in my post above. Frankly, as you may have guessed, the tax proposals were never a huge thing with me. I just got so damned tired of defending my choice around here that I figured it would be better to just say it was all about self interest. You might not have liked that, but you accepted it.
Originally Posted By chickendumpling <<PUMA?? Is that dirty, funny or both??>> LOL. If you don't know what a PUMA is, I'm almost afraid to tell you! LOL. It's an acronym for Party Unity My A**, a group of really peeved off Hillary supporters. (And I only say it because when this whole campaign trail started oh so long ago I remember you saying you were leaning towards voting for Hillary.)
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I trust McCain far more with our nation's defense than I do Obama. I agree we need some change in direction, but I just can't go with Obama's wild-eyed optimism. I'm not at all convinced we can make everything all good by sitting down and talking with our enemies.<< RT, I'd like you to think about what Andrew Sullivan said a week ago. >>The Presidential Oath of Office is to defend the Constitution and our liberties, not to defend the security of the country. And sometimes, there will be a trade-off. I grew up in a country where bombs went off all the time. And the British attitude was, "Carry on, ignore these people, do your work, be stoic, and live through it, retain your freedoms." Do somethings you need to do like tighten security, you need to do some practical things. But to throw our Constitution out of the window, for the phony idea of security, is crazy. Give me liberty, or give me death. The first Americans would say to Al Qaeda, come and kill us, we will never give up our freedoms no matter what. And these people throw away our freedoms for the phony idea of security in a country that you can't permanently secure anyway.<<
Originally Posted By Route66 This is the first time I've seen this video with the reversed dialogue. I saw the raw footage on YouTube before hand. The guys voice is creepy as all get out and he does say something like a prayer to protect her from witchcraft. I'm all for religious tolerance, just as long as your not hurting anyone, do what ever you want. However I am entitled to my opinion, and this stuff is weird.. I dont want this nutcase in the white house.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The Presidential Oath of Office is to defend the Constitution and our liberties, not to defend the security of the country. And sometimes, there will be a trade-off.>> Unlike Dubya, I don't see McCain taking away our liberties in the name of security. Unlike Bush, he has faced death and worse to defend our liberties. McCain has spoken out strongly against the use of torture. I do not see him as a do whatever it takes to stay safe kind of guy. Keep a strong military and be willing to use it? Yes. Take our liberties away in the name of security? I just don't see it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***McCain had an AHA MOMENT!! You choose a running mate who will appeal to the far right but have absolutely no credibility with anyone else.*** You're absolutely right, I believe he DID go through this very thought process. Which is why he's incredibly irresponsible, and practically a traitor. He cares so little about America and her future that he would put the country in potentially dire jeopardy by allowing an unqualified kook like Palin into such a high position. Either that, or he never considered the possibility that he might have to resign for health reasons. Which is just as bad, since that shows he lacks any sort of reasonable perspective in his thinking processes.
Originally Posted By mele When it comes to the safety of our country, I really don't think one leader would be all that much different than another. I'm much more worried about what each leader will do to this country, not what they will do to protect us from other countries. I find it odd, RT, that you seem to be delighted that McCain would pick someone who isn't qualified just because that's what it takes to win. Country be damned, I guess. To me, that makes someone the worst leader. A real leader shouldn't have to pull BS like this. The need to win shows me why he doesn't deserve to win.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<It's an acronym for Party Unity My A**, a group of really peeved off Hillary supporters. (And I only say it because when this whole campaign trail started oh so long ago I remember you saying you were leaning towards voting for Hillary.)>> Yes, I initially was a strong supporter of Hillary. Then I read "The Audacity of Hope" and was seduced by what seemed a very common sense approach to many of our problems. I abandoned Hillary, and worse yet I abandoned my hero Bubba. Then I watched both conventions start to finish. McCain, to me, seemed like more of a leader. I still think Obama is an enormously intelligent guy and that he would make a great president. Someday; not now. When I sat and thought about it I realized that racism was driving my vote. Reverse racism, but racism just the same. I asked myself what Jake Brigance asked the jury in "A Time to Kill". I asked myself to imagine that he was white. I asked myself if I would have supported Obama if he were a white guy named Barry Olson. My answer was no way. I liked what I thought having a Black president would mean for our country. I was hopeful that it would finally put our racist past to rest. But I also realized that if he were white, I would dismiss him for his lack of experience. I see no reason to hold Obama to a different standard just because of the color of his skin.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<You're absolutely right, I believe he DID go through this very thought process. >> Actually, I had said that with a bit of tongue in cheek. But I am glad you recognize my awesome prescience... even if it was unintentional on my part.
