Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt You are right about Obama, but though he hasn't accomplished as much as we'd hoped the Republicans have pretty much done nothing of note to move the country forward at all. In fact, they seem directionless and appear to be focused on being divisive and setting things right back to where they were when Obama took office. Palin quitting her job as Governor of Alaska to be the Fist Lady of The Tea Baggers only underscores the point.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>You are right about Obama<< I don't know. I guess I'd ask what do people expect Obama to have done by now? When you strip away all the noise and second-by-second news coverage of every tiny thing, he got healthcare reform passed. It's not what we all might want, but neither was Medicare or social security when they were passed. We forget, historically, this is how stuff works. You get your foot in the door and then over time as it's more accepted, you improve on it. Financial reform was passed as well. See above. The stimulus has helped anywhere from moderately to a lot, depending on who you believe. Only ignorant tea baggers think it did actual harm. Internationally he's helped our image tremendously. He's kept his promise about Iraq. He's set to draw down troops in Afghanistan next year. He got BP to start paying out claims immediately for the oil spill. Opportunities? Tons, to be sure. Don't ask don't tell. Being more of a party leader (I have mixed feelings on this; I'm unsure how effective he could really be) Climate Change More aggressive on expiring tax cuts for the wealthy More on jobs More on foreclosures Regardless, I challenge anybody to tell me what a Republican would do that's better. It's easy to find fault when the other guys don't have to offer any solutions.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >It's easy to find fault when the other guys don't have to offer any solutions.< How sad is it that Firefox still thinks Obama is misspelled? Moving on... I think Obama and the democrats should start campaigning against the things they like then "vote with" the republicans who will naturally do the opposite of what Obama wants. It's got to work at least twice right?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I don't know. I guess I'd ask what do people expect Obama to have done by now?" How about all the stuff he campaigned on? He's still got two more years though.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>How about all the stuff he campaigned on? He's still got two more years though.<< I guess nothing stands out for me that hasn't, in some measure, been addressed by him. But I could be wrong.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I think the most obvious fail of the Obama Administration is it's rather feeble attempt to change the attitude in Washington. If anything it's as bad or worse than it's ever been before, and the success of Fox News and the Tea Party fringe is is a backfire of sorts for both the Dems and mainstream Republicans. Though it isn't entirely his fault, Obama has been a complete disappointment in bringing our nation together.
Originally Posted By Mr X Interestingly, I think that Clinton would be more effective in times like these (Bill, not Hill), with his "I feel your pain" compassionate approach, and conversely I think Obama would've been more effective in his own way back in the 90's when things were smoother and his rational, above-the-fray leadership style would've shut down Gingrich era Republican nonsense. I think it was Sport Goofy who pointed out that, in times where everyone is in a panic and loosing their heads over devastating economic ruin, some feeling the pain very personally and deeply, the last thing they want to hear from a leader is "now folks, just calm down...these things take time and we're making progress, you just need to have patience". *sigh*
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Though it isn't entirely his fault, Obama has been a complete disappointment in bringing our nation together*** In fairness, the radical right hated his guts from the very beginning. NOTHING he could've said or done would've changed even a tiny bit of the vitriolic rhetoric they have been flinging before anyone even really got to know the guy.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I also think he's bent over backwards trying to work with the GOP, trying so hard (arguably too hard) to be "bi-partisan," only to have his hand slapped away time and again, and THEN being accused of "ramming things through" anyway. His natural instinct seems to be to try to get along, reach consensus, etc. I think at times he should have taken MORE of a "my way or the highway" approach. Not like Bush, but at least somewhere in between. As we've seen, he was just going to be accused of it anyway.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***As we've seen, he was just going to be accused of it anyway*** This! Excellent post Dabob, every single word of it! That's how I've been feeling as well. I can *appreciate* the fact that he's making the effort time and again, but after a while he just comes off like a sucker (or an abused person, to be more blunt). Nobody should take so much crap without some kind of emotional reaction. And time and again he's trying to reason with people who hate his guts...it simply doesn't work (PLUS, he can't juggle all the balls at once, and therefore he ends up pissing off his allies in his attempt to placate his enemies).
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "NOTHING he could've said or done would've changed even a tiny bit of the vitriolic rhetoric they have been flinging before anyone even really got to know the guy." Of course it wouldn't have stopped them, but an effective communicator might be able to transcend all of that. All one has to do is look at how his administration handled the health care reform debate to see what I'm talking about. Another example is his approach to DADT. Obama and the Dems are allowing the right to hijack their agenda.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I think the media is complicit in that as well. The right wing thinks the media is inherently "liberal" and would be pushing any Democratic agenda, but actually what most of the media is biased towards is controversy. They LOVE to talk about the politics of it all, who's thwarting who, etc. etc. A Democratic president with big Dem. majorities in both houses, getting through his priorities with little problem? Boring!! So it seems to me that even a left-leaning network like MSNBC just loves to play up how Republicans can obstruct this or that, to the point of, sometimes I think, even encouraging it to happen even as they decry it. Know what I mean? Fox News is just a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican Party (or, as some have suggested, vice versa); the others just love conflict and controversy. So they'd rather play that up and exacerbate it, if anything, than play up when things go smoothly.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "So it seems to me that even a left-leaning network like MSNBC just loves to play up how Republicans can obstruct this or that, to the point of, sometimes I think, even encouraging it to happen even as they decry it. Know what I mean?" Absolutely.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder He's not done much for me because I don't see much manifestation of a leader in him so far. All of my concerns about him during the primary have been realized. He had no prior experience as the CEO of anything, whether a municipality, state or even a business. Despite his one term in the Senate and time in the Illinois House, Washington politics has eaten him alive. He needs to be less concerned about being liked and more concerned about doing what he thinks is right. If the health care that passed is not what he wanted, he needs to shout it from the rooftops and expose why that is. When a tea partier says something moronic, he or a surrogate needs to make sure they get ridiculed for it. Whetehr it's crap for the budget or the war or birthers or Islam. It reminds me of the movie The American President with Michael Douglas. Much of the movie the widowed President takes hit after hit for dating and having a relationship in the White House. His opponent makes it a character issue and the country begins to believe the President is an amoral single Dad who porks his girl friend in the room next to his daighter. His aides implore him to fight back, but he won't lower himself and so his ratings plummet. Finally, even his girlfriend says he needs to respond and when she leaves him because she can see it's hurting his presidency, only then does he fight back. That's what I see here. It's going to be getting close to election time and Obama finally figures out he needs to start leading and fighting back, only this isn't the movies and it could be too late.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan If President Obama stopped to answer every nutty thing the far right has dreamt up since Day 1, he'd have little time to deal with anything else. And he has ridiculed this stuff. It hasn't stopped the birthers or whoever from dreaming up the next insane conspiracy theory. So, a president has to rise above some of that stuff. It's the difference between putting duty and country first vs. allowing oneself to get dragged into a mud flinging contest. Obama is trusting that the public will eventually see through the far right's tactics and be fair.
Originally Posted By ecdc I don't see it as inexperience or getting eaten alive so much as I see it as his personality. The man has ice water in his veins. NOTHING seems to faze him. I don't always love that side of him, to be sure. Sometimes I wish he'd be as pissed off as I am. But I think it's just who he is.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < He needs to be less concerned about being liked and more concerned about doing what he thinks is right. > I agree. I think 2oony is right that you have to rise above some of the mudflinging, but I also think a). you can have surrogates counter the most damaging stuff, and b). fighting harder for what he believes in and not worrying so much about the right wing howling will only gain him respect, especially among moderates.
Originally Posted By DAR < He needs to be less concerned about being liked and more concerned about doing what he thinks is right. > In other words adopt the George W Bush model.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I don't know that there's really much else he can do with a lot of the hysterical stuff from the right. You actually start to give legitimacy to that stuff if you spend too much energy on it. I can't think of any of that nonsense, from the birther junk to his religion, that he hasn't addressed NUMEROUS times. And it still doesn't go entirely away, because the people that believe that stuff (or WANT to believe it) aren't listening to anything that challenges the view that Obama is a socialist, Muslim, communist, terrorist-sympathizer intent on tearing the Constitution to ribbons. Their favorite radio or TV host keeps tossing out the red meat. I do think that the president could be firmer and more aggressive when it comes to things he'd like to see done. Some of the fired-up speechifying from the '08 campaign would serve him well more often. But wasting that energy on people whose only stated desire is to hope you fail, well, are they worth it?
Originally Posted By DAR <<Some of the fired-up speechifying from the '08 campaign would serve him well more often.>> I don't think it would, doesn't matter if it's the President or a local Alderman, people want results tomorrow.
