Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Here is a real sign of the times: my brother, a staunch Republican and Protestant Fundamentalist is going to vote for Obama. >>> I'm very curious: what is his reasoning?
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/26/gallup-poll-shows-many-democratic-voters-ready-to-vote-mccain-if-their-first-choice-doesnt-make-it-to-november/" target="_blank">http://elections.foxnews.com/2...ovember/</a> >>Many Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama supporters are ready to spurn the Democratic party and vote for John McCain in November if their candidate doesn’t win the presidential nomination, according to a new poll out Wednesday. And a second poll out Wednesday shows most voters — including 85 percent of Democrats — believe there’s a chance that the battle between Clinton and Obama will not be resolved before the August convention. Among people who identified themselves as Hillary Clinton supporters, 28 percent said they would vote for McCain if Obama is his opponent, the March 7-22 Gallup Poll Daily election tracking survey found. The same poll found that 19 percent of Obama supporters would switch sides and cast ballots for McCain if Clinton is the Democratic candidate.<<
Originally Posted By DVC_dad To the OP: <<<It's true, while I disagree with about 50% of his ideas, I do agree with the fact that he wants to cut and run from Iraq.>>> This simply is NOT possible. Everyone knows it, even Obama....but hey... anything to get elected. Guess that's the other 50% tho.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Many Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama supporters are ready to spurn the Democratic party and vote for John McCain in November if their candidate doesn’t win the presidential nomination, according to a new poll out Wednesday. >>> That is, Wednesday from two months ago. I'm sure that I could find a poll somewhere that supported whatever position I wanted to if I went back through the archives.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 He voted against the Webb proposed bill, becuase he preferred a different version of the bill. Not that he was against expanding education benefits for GI's.<< He abstained because he didn't have the balls to vote against it.... Funny thing is, if the Republicans try to use the whole "Obama abstained too much" tactic, all he has to do is refer to this vote. So in effect, Mccain damaged his own campaign by abstaining from the vote. I wouldnt be surprised if Bush changes his mind and signs the bill only because he knows they will override his veto anyways. << This simply is NOT possible. Everyone knows it, even Obama....but hey... anything to get elected. Guess that's the other 50% tho. << But I guarantee you, we wille xit Iraq quicker with a Democratic President than a Republican President.
Originally Posted By X-san ***I wouldnt be surprised if Bush changes his mind and signs the bill only because he knows they will override his veto anyways.*** Isn't that generally how it works anyway? It would seem a president who veto's something guaranteed to be overturned would be sending out a gigantic signal of weakness.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >><<< Here is a real sign of the times: my brother, a staunch Republican and Protestant Fundamentalist is going to vote for Obama. >>> I'm very curious: what is his reasoning?<< He has come to the conclusion that the GOP only cares about the very rich, and pays lip service to the middle class. He also thinks that Obama is more electable than Clinton. I think the straw the broke the camel's back for him was when McCain proposed doing away with employer provided health insurance. He also believes that we were lied to about Iraq.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< He has come to the conclusion that the GOP only cares about the very rich, and pays lip service to the middle class. >>> Interesting. Does he feel this way about President Bush? You identified your brother as "a staunch Republican and Protestant Fundamentalist." In my opinion, one of the big problems that has lead us to our current position is a lot of people that that would self-identify in that manner believed that in 2000, President Bush was part of God's plan to bring the nation closer to Him, and in particular, to work toward Supreme Court nominations to eventually overturn Roe v Wade. This was actually taught in many churches, and there were probably 10-15 million people that really believed it. As a result, a person coming from that point of view has an enormous hurdle to overcome before they can even begin to contemplate the degree to which we're off course, and that those they supported are responsible for it. This is especially true as it challenges not just individual political opinions, but basic beliefs about God and how He operates in our personal and national lives. fkurucz, how would you say your brother fits into all of the above?
Originally Posted By inlandemporer "He abstained because he didn't have the balls to vote against it.... " I'm afraid that's probably true. I used to like McCain a lot better than I do now.
Originally Posted By planodisney X-san, I am curious as to what, in your opinion, makes a religious conservative a nut. Is it the ant-gay marriage stance? Is it the anti-abortion stance? I am fairly sure I am exactly the type of person you are labeling, which I imagine you personally are aquainted with exactly zero of these people. I am a religious conservative. I am a political conservative. I also give of my income every month to global missions that feed and clothe poor children all over the world. I go out of my way to be kind to everyone I meet. I support a family every Christmas with presents and Christmas dinner. I can honestly say that I hate noone. And the thing is X-san, virtually all of these nuts that I know, are exactly like me. Is having a different global view and different opinion on traditional values from the one you have what makes someone a nut?
Originally Posted By X-san ***I am fairly sure I am exactly the type of person you are labeling, which I imagine you personally are aquainted with exactly zero of these people.*** You assume way too much. ***Is having a different global view and different opinion on traditional values from the one you have what makes someone a nut?*** No, it's more along the line of insanity required to believe in some magical being in the sky who has this magical place where you can live forever when you die. That's nuts.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "No, it's more along the line of insanity required to believe in some magical being in the sky who has this magical place where you can live forever when you die. That's nuts" Realizing, of course, that many of these same people have the same opinion of you for thinking the way you do. So it's a push.
Originally Posted By Elderp "No, it's more along the line of insanity required to believe in some magical being in the sky who has this magical place where you can live forever when you die." Or how about the insanity to believe in only what you see? Tell me when was the last time you saw the wind?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<fkurucz, how would you say your brother fits into all of the above?>> Pretty much.
Originally Posted By DAR If Obama comes out and says that he will continue to support the killing or capture of as many terrorists out there then my vote could swing his way.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>If Obama comes out and says that he will continue to support the killing or capture of as many terrorists out there then my vote could swing his way.<< I don't understand why he has to say that. This is a given. We're all Americans. Those of us of a liberal bent should not be required to talk nonstop about how we support the troops, love our country, and don't want to play bridge with bin Laden. Expecting us to do so suggests that our patriotism is somehow in question. If you ask Obama to do something like that, you should expect the exact same thing of McCain.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<John McCain won't ruin the economy by raising taxes and making a bigger government. The country NEEDS to strengthen the dollar, and that means cutting government red tape and regulations, and allow companies to hire more workers and produce products the world wants.>> A translation: "I make enough money that I'm scared s***-less of a Democrat being elected. I LIKE the fact that Republicans let us high-earners pay a disproportionately low tax." It's all about self-interest.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Or how about the insanity to believe in only what you see? Tell me when was the last time you saw the wind?*** I don't believe in only what I see, that's a false argument. I don't believe in unicorns or wookies, do you? If you met someone who genuinely did, would you think that was perfectly normal?
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 I've mentioned this before, but this thread is an appropriate place to mention it again... Bush has single-handedly done INCREDIBLE damage to the way the US is regarded in the eyes of the world. INCREDIBLE damage. And, specifically, as regards the Muslim/Arab World. He has made it clear that he has less than a rudimentary understanding of Muslim culture -- AND that he feels there is no reason for him to take up any of his precious time to become more educated about it. He's the leader of the world. And yet he is demonstrably COMPLETELY ignorant about at least a third of it. And he presents himself as being PROUD of that fact! Fair or not, politicians and everyday citizens in countries around the world judge ALL of us normal Americans by the cowboy example that Bush is all to proud to exhibit. British housewives believe that all Americans support the torturing of foreign prisoners in US war camps. Muslims around the world believe that all Americans are religiously anti-Islamic. The French, who are racked with internal problems over Arab/Muslim assimilation, look at us and see us taking a simplistic "us" versus "them" uninformed stance. This election, the US needs to send a strong message to the rest of the world. We need to CLEARLY reject the Party that has allowed Bush to operate in such an obviously ignorant and infantile manner. Does Obama have a concrete plan that would get us out of Iraq sooner than McCain's plan would? I don't know. What I do know is that us electing Obama would give the US fresh and NECESSARY credibility in the mid-east -- and in the rest of the world.
