Originally Posted By danyoung >I just hate it when you're right!< Tell your buddy TDLFAN. He seems to be nastier than usual lately.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> The whole concept with the hydrolators was such a great illusion << I agree with you here. The hydrolaters were an important step in the story to transport you to another world. Although by their end the effect was somewhat dated. I'm hoping that the new queue will serve a similar purpose when Nemo opens. I don't know for sure, but the artwork I've seen looks promising.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN You must have.. post #51.. DL's 51st anniversary last month?? Why can't anyone get this, but see the humor in the stupid Dalamtian posts!!?? Urgh!
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Me too. Pretty good, actually. It's a shame when you have to explain a joke. It kind of lets all the air out of it.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>You must have.. post #51.. DL's 51st anniversary last month??<<< Did you post on July 17, too? I got that it was post 51, 51 years, etc. Is this supposed to be funny because nobody noticed the 51st anniversary? For the record, I think the 101 Dalmatian posts are pretty dumb and tiresome.
Originally Posted By Skylardad In response to #53 and #54... I have never found it acceptable to have an attraction, let alone a pavillion of attractions, be closed for a prolonged period of time with no imminent announcement on the attraction's replacement. Unfortunately, Disney management wins the battle of what we are forced to accept because I am not going to deny myself countless other attraction by not buying my AP because one pavillion is closed. As far as the all-or-nothing approach. I can see what is trying to be said on how it can be perceived that way, but in the case of TLS I'm not 100% sold on that school of thought because WDW had no plans of closing the pavillion (that we know of). It appears that there have been plans for some time to ressurect the pavillion when the technology for Turtle Talk was being developed. While it was experimental when it debuted, it had obviously become very popular and is now being expanded to a larger venue with Monsters, Inc. in the MK. It also seems that the technology for the Nemo ride-through is going to offer some experimental technology as well. It must have been some rather expensive technology since the Disney parks are being economical and incorporating it into both Epcot and DL. What I'm getting at is Disney has been long-developing new attractions for TLS, it's just that now they are coming to fruition. So my theory is that there have never been plans to close TLS so it is not an all-or-nothing proposition. I think if Disney were trying to decide to close TLS due to poor attendance with nothing in the pipeline we would be looking at an all-or-nothing proposition. This is what I think happened to WOL. Perhaps Disney felt confident they were going to have either a renewal by MetLife or another sponsor and someone backed out at the last minute. In the meantime, they figured they could operate the pavillion as-is with no redevelopement planned prior to signing a sponsor. When the sponsor money ended Disney decided to just pull the plug giving the all-or-nothing option to nothing. While TLS does not appear to have a sponsor lined up, they do have an established character theme to put into TLS which will likely guarantee some strong attendance numbers for years to come. In contrast, WOL was seriously dating itself with no major draw for even the next year or two. Couple that with no sponsor and the pavillion is doomed. While I will always be saddened by the loss of Horizons and WOM they were never all-or-nothing options since replacement plans were being drawn up prior to their demise. While (IMHO) the replacements lack the creative spirit of their predecessors, they did go all the way with the re-design by giving M:S a new building and TT a completely different interior - and both attractions completely new ride-throughs. TLS is half-way because they did not do much, if anything, to immerse you into the story or concept of the new design - so far. As of now, it really is Sea Base Alpha with a blue coat of paint. Perhaps the new ride-through will tie the curent offering at TLS together with the new ride's story. But, from what we know about the ride, I don't see how the current offering is going to relate to the story in the ride other than Nemo's friends are on display. At least with the original version of TLS you were set up with the story that you were going down to Sea Base Alpha to explore the working environement of the researchers - hense the different holding tanks; the exibits; the dive chamber; the aquarium; etc.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> Is this supposed to be funny because nobody noticed the 51st anniversary? << Yes.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Skylardad, again, well put. After rereading my last posts I see I was in too much of a rush to really convey what I was trying to say. You said it much, much better. Like the world, Disney's decisions are not black & white. Horizons was a perfect example of this. The hacks, distortions, and ego-driven reprioritizations of the space pavilion is another. A number of variations of changes could have come to TLS. Things can always be better or improved upon. As things stand now, TLS has had some good popular changes. But it isn't a representation of Disney's best effort.
Originally Posted By tonyanton I believe this has been discussed before, but isn't part of the issue with The Living Seas not getting a massive overhaul (like Horizons, WoM, and even The Land to a degree) due to the lack of sponsor? If Disney spend $100 of their own money on a redo, wouldn't it anger sponsors at the other pavilions who have given a ton of their money?
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> If Disney spend $100 of their own money on a redo, wouldn't it anger sponsors at the other pavilions who have given a ton of their money? << Not really. They spend their money, they get their name up on the wall and in the promotional material. They get visibility. The only way I'd think they'd be really upset is if Disney put up some other attraction or pavilion that somehow was in direct competition with theirs. You know, like another very Test-Track like ride right in Epcot.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>A number of variations of changes could have come to TLS. Things can always be better or improved upon. As things stand now, TLS has had some good popular changes. But it isn't a representation of Disney's best effort.<<< What was planned, and what didn't happen, would have represented much more of their best effort. But without a sponsor, that enhancement was ultimately nixed.
Originally Posted By ChiMike And BOT, I agree, but here we are again with an either-or situation. Either we have a sponser or.... I don't doubt you because it is a fact, but it's frustrating to see Disney not called out on it. That it is accepted. "Well, they don't have a sponser..." Nonsense. It didn't stop them from pouring millions into many things that have a poor shelf-life. And on another hand, POTC didn't have a sponser. Hmm, maybe they should have never built it. We are seeing this eye to eye. What happened to TLS and Baxter's supposed blue sky stuff is part of the same'ol, but I hate seeing people just accept it as the status quo. I'm grateful for some of these enhancements, for the omnimover, but try to be very clear that it is not what Disney's baseline used to be about (sponser or no sponser), let alone it being Disney's best effort.
Originally Posted By tonyanton I agree that they shouldn't be let off the hook, but it does seem Disney is more reticent to spend money in Epcot when there is no sponsor (just look at the lack of World Showcase additions).
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I swear if some of the Disney apologists got to walk thru the dusty storage rooms of WDI and see some of the amazing plans for things (and the Living Seas renovation would be just one) they might ... yes, 'might' just understand why so many of us feel Disney has lost its way. I'm happy the Seas won't sit mothballed like WoL (or is it DoA now?). But this in NO way, shape or form comes close to what can ... what could have been done.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^ wondering if a direct sponsor and the $ involved could have made a difference ? Will be watching SSE to see.....
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror What was planned was pretty cool. A thrill ride was involved, and would have left the basic infrastructure of the aquarium/Seabase Alpha intact (would have enhanced its theme, actually). That we're getting a little omnimover and 300 repetitions of the word "duuuuude" is kind of depressing.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^ I have to admit I like the Turtle Talk with crush way more than I anticipated..if it has legs after a few years I don;t know, but there is something charming about the show
Originally Posted By dabekr I think the enjoyment depends a lot on the experience (as in most things!). The technology was very interesting, but the children picked to ask questions can have a big impact...one was very obnoxious and started yelling at "Crush" and insulting him. She seemed to think she was funny but I was just embarrassed for her parents. It threw the CM for a loop for a minute and he moved on but the second one wasn't much better. "I have to admit I like the Turtle Talk with crush way more than I anticipated..if it has legs after a few years I don;t know, but there is something charming about the show"
