Originally Posted By Darkbeer >>I would say a young girl is not prepared mentally to have a child in most cases let alone having one because of a violent act.<< Huh? First off, I am religious, and believe in God...so that when a child, when "God" figures out she is ready to give birth biologically, is ready to give birth, that is the right time.... Sorry that I don't have to subscribe to your "limits", I prefer the NATURAL limits. It is CLEARLY wrong when an Adult abuses a child (and FYI, it is BOTH sexes that abuse), and when the ADULT does something wrong, they should be punished... But the CHILD (aka Fetus) should NOT be punished, he/she did NOTHING wrong, and the act of an abortion, once again, IMHO, is MURDER! The only people that should be killed are those Adults who VIOLATE the law and kill others. You step over that line, you should have your own life ended, as you made a CLEAR choice to kill. Babies have done NOTHING to have their life ended... CHOICE is important, and that Choice starts PRIOR to having sex! But you need to live by your ACTIONS!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Hey look, he's yelling. Keep your religion out of our politics, Darkbeer.
Originally Posted By jdub >>CHOICE is important, and that Choice starts PRIOR to having sex!<< Also very true; I agree strongly. We are, however, discussing sexual abuse, here. The girls in this conversation are deprived of the choice of which you write.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20020731.html" target="_blank">http://writ.news.findlaw.com/c...731.html</a> A good analysis here. Some quotes: "Now assume that a married couple creates four frozen embryos with the intention of implanting them in the uterus of the wife. Unforeseen circumstances, however, make it physically impossible for her to become pregnant. Her fourteen-year-old daughter, on the other hand, could carry a pregnancy to term and is fertile enough to make implantation extremely likely. What if the parents in these circumstances were to force surrogate motherhood on their unwilling daughter? That would clearly constitute child abuse, despite the fact that the alternative for the embryos is a certain death. In fact, it may be that even if the girl did consent, the physical and emotional burdens of pregnancy at the age of fourteen would be too great to justify. These analogies illustrate why parents should not be in a position to make a choice on a child's behalf when two conditions are present: first, the choice categorically runs counter to the child's interests; and second, others--whether her parents, a fetus, or someone else--stand to gain from that choice. The risks to the child are too great under these circumstances to allow parents to discount her interests in favor of another's. In the abortion context, both conditions obtain: pregnancy is against the teen-ager's interests but may benefit the embryo or fetus." and... "The notion of pregnant minors consulting with their parents is unquestionably appealing. No one--whether pro-choice or pro-life--likes the idea of a child going by herself to an abortion clinic. Ideally, a girl can depend on a parent at a time like that. Unfortunately, however, the law only comes into play in situations far from ideal. To a girl who naturally goes to mom about an unwanted pregnancy, the law of parental notification is irrelevant. And to a girl who does not, the law cannot forcibly create the warmth and trust that are absent. Though many minors will seek guidance from their parents, regardless of the law, as the Court has held with respect to an analogous spousal notification provision struck down in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, "The proper focus of constitutional inquiry is the group for whom the law is a restriction, not the group for whom the law is irrelevant." The truth is that few minors in this situation have the wherewithal to find their way to court to petition for an abortion. For a judge to look those who do in the eye and say "No; you must carry your pregnancy to term" is to speak volumes about that judge's ability to exercise empathy and compassion, a capacity that is rightfully considered a hallmark of an enlightened and fair judiciary. If Justice Owen lacks that quality, then she does not belong on the federal bench, and the Senate should say so." Sadly, Owen was confirmed to the appellate court in the brokered deal a few years when the Republicans controlled the Senate. She was considered for the seat Samuel Alito eventually got, but Bush was told flat out there was no way that she would ever be on the Supreme Court.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains <It is CLEARLY wrong when an Adult abuses a child (and FYI, it is BOTH sexes that abuse), and when the ADULT does something wrong, they should be punished.> This is agreed - but I do believe most of us were referring to males because of the subject of a young girl becoming pregnant - <CHOICE is important, and that Choice starts PRIOR to having sex!> Again it appears that most of us agree - that Abortion not be used as a form of birth control - but again most of the resent posts were not talking about a girl making a "Choice" to have sex but rather a girl/teen/woman being raped.
Originally Posted By FaMulan Any person can have their own personal beliefs as to when life starts. Me? I believe life begins when the fetus is fully viable, which can be anywhere between the ages of 18-35 unless they totally fail to launch (ba-doom, ch). However, one's personal beliefs should not be forced upon others just because they've won an elective office. Senator Biden has it right. He believes that life begins at conception but refuses to force that belief on others.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://www.reproductiverights.org/st_law_notification.html" target="_blank">http://www.reproductiverights....ion.html</a>
Originally Posted By jdub >>Any person can have their own personal beliefs as to when life starts.<< Life starts when all of your kids have moved out, & are taking care of the grandkids on their own.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer >>I believe life begins when the fetus is fully viable, which can be anywhere between the ages of 18-35 unless they totally fail to launch (ba-doom, ch).<< FaMulan, you got me to laugh!!!! I have clearly stated my PERSONAL opinion, and have expected to be slammed by some.... It happens to be the SAME belief that Senator Biden has, but I am bad, and he is OK.... I just don't get it.....
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I have clearly stated my PERSONAL opinion, and have expected to be slammed by some.... It happens to be the SAME belief that Senator Biden has, but I am bad, and he is OK.... I just don't get it....." That's because you're being dishonest here. You've been told over and over now Biden wouldn't force that belief on anyone else while you would.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer UGH!!! >>That's because you're being dishonest here. You've been told over and over now Biden wouldn't force that belief on anyone else while you would.<< WHEN did I say I would???? PLEASE STOP putting words in my mouth!!!!!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Now, if you asked about my college aged daughter, I would recommend her carrying the child to term, but it would be HER decision at the end.*** Not if your preferred candidate gets into power, it won't be.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney I don't see how it could physically be healthy for a 9 or 10 year old to carry a baby to term. I can't imagine my little one, who is very small for her age, being able to carry a baby in 2 years. I just don't think she could physically handle it. And mentally, well it would be extremely traumatic to say the least.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer >>Not if your preferred candidate gets into power, it won't be.<< HUH, Isn't it CONGRESS that passes the laws (OK, she could break a tie in the Senate). I just don't see a MAJOR change in Abortion issues with a McCain/Palin victory. Could some late term abortions issus get attention, I think yes, depending on the Senator/Representative fallout. But no way is America outlawing Abortion.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>That's because you're being dishonest here. You've been told over and over now Biden wouldn't force that belief on anyone else while you would.<< You have said you are in favor of stricter abortion laws, right? That would qualify as "forcing your belief", I think.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I just don't see a MAJOR change in Abortion issues with a McCain/Palin victory.*** The Supreme Court is the issue here. McCain has already promised to nominate pro-lifers (a Palin in the Oval would be several magnitudes more extreme imho), and there will likely be at least a couple new justices in the next 4-8 years. Notice how many decisions these days come down to 5-4? Doesn't take much to tip that balance. A McCain victory will almost certainly see the end of Roe v Wade...a Palin assertion would pretty much assure it (we can continue to hope McCain is just paying lip-service to the extremists, not so with Palin..not a chance).
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Yes, I am in favor of SOME regulation, basically in the Third Trimester.. But I am just ONE person, and just stated my opinion... not forcing my opinion on others!
Originally Posted By Darkbeer So, Mr. X do you have a problem with giving back the rights to the States, instead of the Federal Government, which is what would happen if Roe vs Wade is overturned?
Originally Posted By mele <<Huh? First off, I am religious, and believe in God...so that when a child, when "God" figures out she is ready to give birth biologically, is ready to give birth, that is the right time.>> Oh my god.
Originally Posted By Elderp The "imposing my beliefs on you" idea doesn't agree with me. There are people who believe colusion and insider trading should be legal and yes I am imposing my beliefs on them. The moment you agree to live in a society there must be rules. Rules are beliefs and must be imposed. We can debate what rules should and shouldn't be imposed upon society, but in the end it is all going to be sets of beliefs coliding with each other. Then again we could all go back to living in caves, but I personally like hot showers.
