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Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <McCain is such a rank liar, I just might believe you when you say he made the whole thing up.> Of course, I said nothing of the sort.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Bush and his operatives are accused of the smear. Douglas has ignored it because it blows his point out of the water.> I didn't ignore it; I recognized it for what it was - an accusation with no evidence backing it up, by the head of a campaign which lost and which most voters believed was more negative than the one that won. <I'm not going to stand idly by while the same smear tactics and obfuscation are employed yet again.> What are you going to do? Spew out invective against one side while ignoring the smear tactics and obfuscation being employed by the other? Insist that the opinions of liberals are the truth, and that the opinions of conservatives are lies? You're doing that now, and have been for the last 5 years. So what?
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Spew out invective against one side while ignoring the smear tactics and obfuscation being employed by the other? << What smear tactics? What obfuscation? What has the obama campaign said or inferred about McCain that you would consider a "smear"?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <No, what he is illustrating is that Sen Obama often misspeaks. We've heard over and over the last 8 years about how President Bush is an idiot because he misspeaks. Truth is, lots of smart people occasionally misspeak, especially when they are speaking alot.> Except that Obama didn't misspeak. If you listen in context, what he was saying was about his "hypothetical Muslim faith" (i.e. "if I WAS a Muslim, then..."). Of course, GOP dirty tricksters are taking that one phrase (...my Muslim faith...), cutting it off from all context, and plastering it all over the internet. Nice. <Famous in the liberal blogosphere. There's no actual evidence Mr Rove had anything to do with it, or that it was any more than one nut sending out a few emails.> Actually, it was primarily "push polls" conducted over the telephone. Looks like: a). your level of being informed is as questionable as usual; b). Your own inflated opinion of your level of being informed is also just as usual.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <If you listen in context, what he was saying was about his "hypothetical Muslim faith" > I look forward to you defending a conservative the next time his words are taken out of context. <Actually, it was primarily "push polls" conducted over the telephone.> Please produce the name of one person who received a phone call claiming Sen McCain fathered a black child.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Please produce the name of one person who received a phone call claiming Sen McCain fathered a black child." Did you not read the Boston Globe article by McCain's former manager? I can't name anyone presently in Wasilla, Alaska. I guess that town doesn't exist then.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Here's a piece written by Richard Davis, McCain's then and current campaign manager. <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/" target="_blank">http://www.boston.com/news/pol...ampaign/</a>
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh "Did you not read the Boston Globe article by McCain's former manager?" I summarized it earlier.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh "Otherwise it didn't happen - is that your point? " Not quite, but close. Occam's Razor tells us that the lack of evidence of an event is a pretty good indication that the event didn't occur.
Originally Posted By gadzuux There's plenty of evidence available that this occured. Some of that evidence is provided right here on the thread. Your expectation of specific names of perpetrators as 'proof' is unreasonable and not necessary to validate that this shameful chapter of recent GOP history is all too real.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<If you listen in context, what he was saying was about his "hypothetical Muslim faith" >> <I look forward to you defending a conservative the next time his words are taken out of context.> I already did, thank you, on the McCain and the "100 years" thing, which I said was a cheap shot, taken out of context. Care to admit the same about the Obama "Muslim faith" thing? <<Actually, it was primarily "push polls" conducted over the telephone.>> <Please produce the name of one person who received a phone call claiming Sen McCain fathered a black child.> So rather than admit you were wrong about it being an email thing, you're asking for names that you know don't exist? By definition these "push polls" are stealthy and anonymous. And unless person X gave their names to a newspaper back in 2000, these names will not be retrievable. You know that, yet you'd like to pretend that because of this, this practice didn't exist. Let me put it this way. If you insist this never happened, you're calling Rick Davis a liar. Rick Davis is McCain's current campaign manager, responsible for the messages McCain is putting out. Still want to insist he's a liar?
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Care to admit the same about the Obama "Muslim faith" thing?> Sure. If anyone out there is using Sen Obama's mistatement to claim he's actually a Muslim, then that's a cheap shot. <So rather than admit you were wrong about it being an email thing, you're asking for names that you know don't exist?> I'm not wrong about the email thing, and maybe the names don't exist because no one ever received any calls claiming McCain fathered a black child. <If you insist this never happened, you're calling Rick Davis a liar> No, I believe Mr Davis was mistaken. Perhaps, caught up emotion after losing a hard fought race, he blended two separate events into one. These issues are seldom black and white, as much as unreasonable people would make them so.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<Care to admit the same about the Obama "Muslim faith" thing?>> <Sure. If anyone out there is using Sen Obama's mistatement to claim he's actually a Muslim, then that's a cheap shot.> There are many right-wingers doing just that and putting it all over the net. <<So rather than admit you were wrong about it being an email thing, you're asking for names that you know don't exist?>> <I'm not wrong about the email thing, and maybe the names don't exist because no one ever received any calls claiming McCain fathered a black child.> You WERE wrong that it was just "one nut sending out a few emails" as you originally tried to say. If you're saying it was only that, then you're saying Rick Davis is lying. <<If you insist this never happened, you're calling Rick Davis a liar>> <No, I believe Mr Davis was mistaken. Perhaps, caught up emotion after losing a hard fought race, he blended two separate events into one.> Try again. Davis wrote that piece in 2004, 4 full years after the events in question, not while he was "caught up emotion after losing a hard fought race." But nice try. That was a not a statement he blurted out; it was a carefully crafted opinion piece for a newspaper. He talks about the emailer, whom he names, and ALSO talks about the separate incidents of push polling via telephone; so no, he did not blend two events into one. He kept them distinct. You'd like to believe these telephone push polls never happened, but if you believe so, you're calling Davis a liar, despite your attempts at being genteel (and yet weasly) and saying he was "mistaken." <These issues are seldom black and white, as much as unreasonable people would make them so.> These things happened. It takes a lot of willful ignorance on your part to deny it.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "These things happened. It takes a lot of willful ignorance on your part to deny it." Boy howdy.
Originally Posted By oc_dean TOPIC: >>Senator Obama Misspeaks.... "My Muslim Faith"<< ....... still waiting my friend you call out one of a thousands wrongs over the Republican party.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Kar2oonMan Mon 9/8/2008 2:15p **OK, so he mispsoke** Yes, he "mispsoke." Or misspoke. As you illustrated, it can happen to anyone, Darkbeer. ; ) <<<< And it just happened to me. LOL Let me correct myself......... '...... anyone of a thousand ills.'
