Originally Posted By WDW1974 <<Lol,MGM is not a bad park at all.>> LOL, I didn't say it was bad ... but compared to every other US Disney park ... well, it is. <<I at least equal it to the other parks and can tell you for a fact that it is many people's favorite park overall.>> I disagree. And take a look at its attendence numbers compared to MK and Epcot ... not even close. Many people love it? Great. What does that prove? A lot of folks love WalMart too. <<Yes,I agree it's layout is that of a studio, and there for it is scattered.>> No. It's the layout of the ONLY Disney park in the USA (including DCA) that was built with no master plan for expansion. So everything was thrown in ... areas that were supposed to be off-stage and used for production became parts of the park ... and let's not even discuss how many times Cast parking has been ripped up and moved for expansion. And Disney dropped all pretense of being a studio a long time ago -- shuttering the $80 million FEature Animation Florida last winter -- was just the nail on a coffin that had been purchased many years ago. What you have is a park with a very generic 'entertainment' theme ... movies? I don't think so. <<That does not bother me though,the other 3 have a different flow so its nice to have somthing unique.>> A lot of things can be unique and not enjoyable too. <<And how can you say you'd rather be at DCA!?Are you serious,I guess everyone has their own opinion but geeze!>> Yes. I am quite serious. Have you been to DCA? (because if you haven't then the debate stops here) If you have, I can give you loads of reasons why I prefer DCA to Disney-MGM ... The only things left at MGM I still enjoy are ToT (which I can ride at DCA), Great Movie Ride (which only still exists because Eisner hasn't put up the money to rip it out for a thrill ride) and -- to a much lesser extent -- RnRC (second only to Test Track for the most overrated WDW attraction). Frankly, if Brown Derby wasn't one of WDW's best dining experiences I might go to the park only once or twice a year and I have an AP. <<Also,I do agree the park could use some more "rides".>> True. But first the park could use a few bulldozers to rip out the hiddeous hat.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Yes. I am quite serious. Have you been to DCA? (because if you haven't then the debate stops here) If you have, I can give you loads of reasons why I prefer DCA to Disney-MGM ..." All right, I'm listenin'. The carney ride? "areas that were supposed to be off-stage and used for production became parts of the park" Hello...its theme IS production. I used to work at Sky Dog Productions on MGM's backlot and while it was odd having a tram tour go by complete with tourists take pictures of you eating lunch, it was always supposed to be part of the show. "And Disney dropped all pretense of being a studio a long time ago -- shuttering the $80 million FEature Animation Florida last winter.." And how much production goes on at HPB? Zero, zip, nada....ever, ever, ever. "It's the layout of the ONLY Disney park in the USA (including DCA) that was built with no master plan for expansion." What was TDAs big plan, close stuff until people like the place? Eureka, SSL, Steps, H&D, Lights Camera Chaos, Vocal Flight, Wolfgang's, Mondavi's, Three Bags Full, DeVine, Wisteria....Or was it throw stuff at it until something sticks: Steps 2.0, Blast, Luminaria, Millionaire. DCAs traffic flow is no better than MGMs. Both suck. "I might go to the park only once or twice a year and I have an AP." Could it be a case of familiarity breeds contempt?
Originally Posted By kennect I can only assume from the responses that this update expansion of the backlot isn't going to mean much to anyone here on LP....
Originally Posted By dshyates I have an idea for expansion. Maybe they could add a movie studio to their movie studio theme park. And an animation studio would be cool.
Originally Posted By WDW1974 "Yes. I am quite serious. Have you been to DCA? (because if you haven't then the debate stops here) If you have, I can give you loads of reasons why I prefer DCA to Disney-MGM ..." <<All right, I'm listenin'. The carney ride? >> 1.) Soarin; 2.) ToT; 3.) Cal. Screamin; 4.) Disney Animation; 5.) GRR; 6.) All of the Condor Flats area; 7.) Aladdin; 8.) Winery and dining on the terrace; 9.) detail of Bug's Land (although not the rides); 10.) Burgers at Taste Pilots; Don't see one 'carney' ride listed unless you include the coaster, which is fair game. "areas that were supposed to be off-stage and used for production became parts of the park" <<Hello...its theme IS production. I used to work at Sky Dog Productions on MGM's backlot and while it was odd having a tram tour go by complete with tourists take pictures of you eating lunch, it was always supposed to be part of the show.>> Nope. you Missed my point. I agree completely that it was supposed to be part of the show. Opening up the area (Mickey Ave?) where Millionaire is and all that other area that was backstage for REAL production was NOT. They quickly decided to give up on making it a real studio and in came all sorts of 'entertainment' ... anyone remember the Ninja Turtle show? Or the Goosebumps fright house joke? Or Ace Ventura? "And Disney dropped all pretense of being a studio a long time ago -- shuttering the $80 million FEature Animation Florida last winter.." <<And how much production goes on at HPB? Zero, zip, nada....ever, ever, ever.>> Agreed. But there's no pretense that it's an actual studio. Unlike the whole point of the Disney-MGM STUDIOS. "It's the layout of the ONLY Disney park in the USA (including DCA) that was built with no master plan for expansion." <<What was TDAs big plan, close stuff until people like the place? Eureka, SSL, Steps, H&D, Lights Camera Chaos, Vocal Flight, Wolfgang's, Mondavi's, Three Bags Full, DeVine, Wisteria....Or was it throw stuff at it until something sticks: Steps 2.0, Blast, Luminaria, Millionaire.>> Sadly, I do agre with this. There was so much teeth-nashing when DCA tanked that no one thought big picture. They only thought next quarter. hence, many of the things u mentioned. <<DCAs traffic flow is no better than MGMs. Both suck.>> I find it easier to navigate DCA ... course it could be it's never more than moderately crowded when MGM can be packed and so much of it is closed or walled off. "I might go to the park only once or twice a year and I have an AP." <<Could it be a case of familiarity breeds contempt?>> No. If you've read any of the War and Peace sized MK Observations thread, you'd see that this has been brought up and refuted. I LOVED MGM when it opened. It was a 2/3rd day park, but everything there fit and told a story ... it worked on so many levels. The last decade has really been a steady decline toward destroying what made MGM a nice place to begin with. That's why in 2004, I'd much rather spend a day at DCA than at MGM. (And, just you understand where I'm coming from, I'm no huge fan of DCA either. I just can find a whole lot more there to do and it certainly has -- when people are there -- a better vibe going than MGM does.)
Originally Posted By WDW1974 <<I have an idea for expansion. Maybe they could add a movie studio to their movie studio theme park. And an animation studio would be cool.>> I know that's sarcasm, but you just stated my whole point in two sentences!
Originally Posted By Labuda "No, it adds to the lousy park feel of the place. Unlike the other Disney parks in Florida, I feel that MGM is lacking something ... a cohesive theme, attractions other than a giant hat ... a soul. It's the park I most miss on WDW visits and I live a short few hours away ..." Yeah, I don't even expect to hit the left half of the park when I'm there next weekend - Tot, RnRC, Little Mermaid, and Beauty & the Beast. Then I'll be done with the Studios unless we decide to go back and do Muppets.
Originally Posted By kennect Actually something just hit me that makes some sense as to how the Disney company as a whole thinks about their parks and the money they put into them...They put huge money and thought into the studio park's opening...Not everyone would agree with that statement but trust me they did some things that were icing on the cake that most would never notice....Then again, most of that icing is now gone...What I am trying to make reference to are the clothing shops on the left as you enter the park...Sort of the second set of shops as you walk down the main drag of the park...If you are still with me on that thought this is my point....On opening day those shops were decked out with very exspensive F.Schumacher wallpapers that were part of a huge art deco thing Schumacher had just done based on their archives...The shops were also loaded with art deco display pieces from a company whose name is Neidemier(sp?)....Since the opening my experience has been this...First visit I was blown away to see Disney use an item I was familiar with...Second visit came across as this has been destroyed by guests that have no idea how to act..I mean it really looked as if people actually tried to tear the paper off the wall...Third visit, all of it gone and simply replaced by white paint....Just consider me grousing for the moment and my complaint here has to do with folks that can't respect where they are...I love the park even with all of it faults....But the hat has to go...I can't even imagine anyone at Disney thinking that it was a good thing but obviously someone did...Is there anyone in the world that actually knows the true story behind it being done? My story sounds crazy but I really loved that initial look the park had...Wallpaper being done away with is one thing but the hat is another....
Originally Posted By dshyates I have done a lot of proMGM comparisons to DCA both here and over at DL:Expansion recently which to me is kinda odd since I was disappointed in MGM when it opened and while it improved some, in the Pressler era it downturned quickly (can you say giant obnoxious hat that completely distroyed one of the best long shot views of a park icon ever concieved. All for a pin shop. Pressler and his team were idiots of a truly impressive magnitude, and we're lucky any of the parks remain with ANY aesthetic value what so ever. And for Christ can someone please remove the amputated arm from Spaceship Earth.) But as a whole I still think it is a better park than DCA which since MGM is a disappointment really says a lot. Everyone just loves Soarin', but to me, while a rather enjoyable experience, it falls short of a Disney quality attraction. The theme is incoherent to say the least. If it is a travelogue in the Am. the Beautiful vein then just say so and drop the airplane winged hyperspace hang glider storyline. If they are gonna stick with that botched storyline they really need a preshow explaining it and to get rid of the straight cuts in the film. As it stands now it is a thematic train wreck. GRR is also a fun ride, but with only macro-themeing it also exist in the relm of the Busch league, not Disney or even the lesser Universal league. Screamin' doesn't even rise to the Universal or Busch level, it really is more on par with Paramount or dare I say Six Flags. Not only did they not theme the ride, they made no attempt what so ever to theme the queue. It is simply a kenetic backdrop for the Pier. While I'll agree the waiting area of DCAs Animation exhibit is pretty, the exhibits lack substance, I much perfered MGMs when you could actually watch Disney Animators making the next Disney classic. To me watching the next Ollie Johnson work on the next "Alice in Wonderland" is cosiderably more special than playing a lame computer game. I did enjoy DCAs High-end eateries. Alas the best is now an eat-n-greet, and the other has been neutered to a mediocre restaurant with a surly snooty staff. After Matt gets DL proper rebuilt and painted, they need to go full bore into putting DCA back the way it was when it opened then spend about a Billion dollars plussing it. Bottom line is right now we are simply arguing which park is lamer.
Originally Posted By mstaft Our last visit to MGM (in '99) was not very satisfying. We arrived early. Went to RNRC, ToT, GMR, and Star Tours. We shopped a little and stopped to eat lunch at Sci Fi. We waited 1 hr 15 minutes after our reserved reservation time. The food was mediocre and the service rude. And the drive in area itself needed a paint job to keep its nighttime sky somewhat convincing. Took the studio tram, watched Muppets 3D (yawn), visiting the awful Pizza Planet in name only ripoff and at 3pm left for Epcot. Yeah, I'll return when I go back to WDW in 2 years, but only because I live in the other side of the country and only visit once every 7 or 8 years. Same idea for my next visit to DL Resort and seeing DCA...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<Pressler and his team were idiots of a truly impressive magnitude, and we're lucky any of the parks remain with ANY aesthetic value what so ever<< And just think - Prssler is one of the names mentioned by all major news services as shooting to replace Eisner........imagine how bad it would all get then......a Sorcerers hat for every park --wheeeee
Originally Posted By WDW1974 <<Actually something just hit me that makes some sense as to how the Disney company as a whole thinks about their parks and the money they put into them...They put huge money and thought into the studio park's opening...Not everyone would agree with that statement but trust me they did some things that were icing on the cake that most would never notice....Then again, most of that icing is now gone...>> That's really a great way of putting it ... it was the details (like that wallpaper) ... often quite expensive details that set Disney apart. Frankly, they don't do things like that very much at all. And you can get it in other places from themed resturants at the local mall to incredible Vegas resorts. But your point rings true to me on so many levels. Because first off, Disney no longer cares enough to pay for things like expensive themed wallpaper when basic paint will do. Second, Disney's guests have become lower echelon (I know it sounds elitist and frankly I don't give a damn because it's true and their marketing and discounting is as responsible for it as anything ... and yes, WDW does simply mirror society before I get bashed but that's not the point. I EXPECT ... NO, I DEMAND better from Disney.) Many of Disney's guests actively destroy property through either malice or just plain ignorance. Now, add in a lower quality cast then a decade or two ago that doesn't care for the most part what the guests do. And the ones that do care are afraid to even tell anyone to stop damaging property, which 20 year ago would have gotten them ejected and sent home with a bill, because the higher-ups will just wind up comping the guilty guests a free magical WDW vacation and the CMs will likely get written up for abusive behavior to the guests. It's a vicious cycle and it all plays into why WDW isn't what it once was.
Originally Posted By WDW1974 <<Bottom line is right now we are simply arguing which park is lamer.>> Bottom line is I concur 100 percent ... My only point was my enjoyment level in 2004 is higher at DCA, which never was great, but is being plussed. as opposed to Disney-MGM, which had a wonderful foundation, that's been destroyed.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 WDW, unfortunately your points ring true not only for guests at WDW, but anywhere you go....concern for fellow man, and respect for places you visit or attend is at an all time low in my almost 50 years on this earth. I think the malice is caused by jealousy....whereas I used to dream of staying in a resort like the Contemporary...and worked my*** off to make that dream come true....others view that property as the land of the privileged, never stopping to think that there were no privileged people in this country to begin with...mostly poor and outcast, even criminals etc. -- people worked and earned their way to what they have. And before anyone goes off on how someone like Paris Hilton is born into a do nothing rich life..true, but somewhere down the line people worked for this. We have a high end department store in Chicago called Marshall Fields..........if anyone ever reads the story of the man himself...they will see he came from nothing...........as have so many others, including yours truly. Anytime I hear people comment about snobs, rich as**es etc as I make my way around, i would like to bat them in the head and make them listen to stories ( hey maybe even a slide show- but my family didn't have expensive cameras and slides or movies from when I grew up) -- ...........but no, these pigs would rather stick their freakin gum on the side of splash mountain and cackle like the morons they are.....come to WDW dressed for an audition at the Springer show......crap up rooms in hotels because..hey, Disney can afford it......take lewd pix in monorails......etc etc..( and most of these are not kids my friends)....as you can tell I am fed up with it and the excuses people make......some people truly have bad luck and I feel sorry for them......most others are just too lazy to do anything about it. So I am with you WDW.......if they want to point and say snob/ elitist etc....let them..........if you want a piece of the action.....do something about it, this is a great country....look at where people who came to this country 20 years ago in boats from Cuba / Vietnam and many other places are.... many own their own businesses, their kids are educated ( they insist upon it) - My daughters piano teacher grew up with 6 siblings in a 500 sq foot apartment in Hong Kong ( not the wealthy part). - she came to this country when she was 11 -- and by being focused, working multiple jobs...taking enough student loans to choke a horse that she is paying back-- owns 2 masters degrees from Northwestern University - music and computer science........now owns her own business but still teaches on the side..............if someone saw where she andher husband live, they would scream elitist.. but you know what....they should know where she started from.... and passed them by...because as they were pointing and laughing and having a good ol time.. she was working and studying and remaining focused.......only in America. Meanwhile she is the toughest teacher my kids have ever had...doesn't let them slack off...but they love her ( mostly - LOL) - and they have learned so much.....about piano and life
Originally Posted By jmuboy I think while MGM, like many of the Disney parks during Pre$$ler's watch, has suffered. But MGM is easily "fixable" at least more so that DCA. Yes, there is little to no really production left at the park. But the same can be said for all studio theme parks now-a-days (except Uni Hollywood). I agree, the hat has to go. I'd also like to see the return of SuperStar TV and the Monster Sound Show. Both were fun, popular, and supported the theme of making movies and TV shows. I am also looking forward to the Motors action stunt show and the return of the updated "streets" backlot.
Originally Posted By pitapan16 Well said and great points people of LP. You know, I have never truley looked at MGM as WDW1974 and others had.I've really enjoyed the newer additions to the park and have always thought these additions to be a good thing. And not that I would have ever agreed evrything was perfect, or fine as is, or not in need of a good flow. But now that you guys(and WDW1974)put it in perspective I must say I consider most of these posts accurate and valid.Though I have always enjoyed Disney-MGM tremendously and probably still will, I now have an outlook closer to that of a person who wants to see more detail,more long term,more creativeness,and more in tune with the whole flow of the park,its themes,and its areas.
Originally Posted By Epcot82Guy I agree 100% that MGM has great and (dare I say it) cheap potential for fixing. It is one of the few that the bones are still in good shape, and most of the changes would need to be done in basic concepts. Divide the place up into streets proper (like lands), and add small superficial touches all around. Adding in more Streetmosphere performers and unique shops and eateries would balance this out. Then, add in the attractions where they are necessary. The joy of having a Hollywood themed park is that basically any theme goes. Turn the area around Indy into Action Way and really deck it out with adventurous memorabilia. Make Back Lot Lane run along the back and have impromptu auditions and crew darting in and out of buildings (who cares if they aren't really on their way to a shoot!). Really "magic-up" the Animation Courtyard (including a grand move of the hat over there if they want to keep it). Changes are minor. Put up street signs on themed lamp posts. Revamp the shops in the area to reflect what the area invokes. Simply, make it more immersive. IMHO, The park has enough for now to keep people there if they have enough to look at inbetween.
Originally Posted By WDW1974 Great post VBDAD, if not for DVC and the Cubbies (11-1 yesterday, ouch) ... well, and your weird princess fixation, I'd say we agree on almost everything that gets debated here ...
Originally Posted By WDW1974 <<But now that you guys(and WDW1974)put it in perspective I must say I consider most of these posts accurate and valid.>> Thanks, I try. Interesting how you used the word 'perspective' because it's one of the basic tenets I use when debating/discussing any issue. Sure, well all have opinions. And there are irrefutable facts too. But perspective does make a huge difference in debate. That's why anyone who thinks the giant hat at MGM is a great addition is WRONG even though it's only their opinion. Because anyone who understand the whole design of the Studios would understand the hat RUINS it. So, on things like that, is often when arguments spew forth like lies from Disney PR spinners ...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<Great post VBDAD, if not for DVC and the Cubbies (11-1 yesterday, ouch<< I told everyone when the year started that Maddux would be their most dependable starter by playoff time...and I am enjoying basking in being right....ERA just over 2 since the All-Star break ( winning 5 - 0 tonight) - and the bullpen has cost him the last two wins....even though the Cubs have won all but two of his starts since --- thanks on the post-- I just felt like venting..........and you gave me the perfect lead in...........
