Originally Posted By dshyates "1) Low income people. They got snookered by smooth talking real estate guys and got themselves into mortgages that they couldn't afford once they started resetting. I feel bad for these people, but I don't see bailing them out. Essentially they could never afford to buy a house before and really couldn't this time either. They are back to where they really belonged in the first place... as renters." Yes they got snookered into houses they couldn't afford. But that doesn't mean they should have been renters. Just advised to buy a less expensive house. My mortgage broker was my real estate agent. And golly, I live in my parents garage now. But the question is, "did I learn anything?" Yes, I got taken and it was my fault. I believed what I was old whose best interest were not my best interest. and she did a wonderful job of getting me to sign on the line. All the" you're gonna miss out on the big gains...". "You want to do the best for your family and that is to buy this house". "Here is how it will work" stuff. She got her commission, and I got an ulcer. But Trippy, I don't want your money. And I'm not asking for any type of bail out. I do want the people doing this stopped and punished. And the FBI has rounded up over 600 preditory lenders in the past 3 months. All of their victims need a good scolding for being stupid.
Originally Posted By danyoung >You really shouldn't assume that a man of color is ever going to be elected to the highest office in this land.< Where you refuse to acknowledge that the pristine areas just may have to be sacrificed to the overwhelming current need, I refuse to see color in Obama. Thee are obviously people who only see a black man - I see the best of the current choices for actually instigating the much needed change that everyone's crying for. >No one really likes paying $4 per gallon for gas, but in reality it doesn't hurt most people.< Wow - you really don't live in my world, Trippy. Everyone here in the Dallas area is hurt by the increased gas prices. I've been taking the bus/train to work off and on for the past year, and it's slowly turning into much more "on". I have a co-worker who now has to put over $100 in his tank each week just to get to work. He also is taking the train. Takes a lot longer, but since we both work for the state we get really cheap annual passes. People are combining their errand trips so that they do them all in one efficient sweep instead of just as they come up. I'm 51, I've seen a lot of changes in society, and I've never seen any single factor influence society at my level as much as the current gas crisis. Glad you're doing OK, though!
Originally Posted By dshyates Trippy lives in a place that isn't as effected as most of the country. And he makes a lot more than most of the country. And I find his compassion indicitive of those that are not effected. Now when it hits Trippy personally, his tune will change real quick. He's fine, everyone else are just irresponsible whiners. It was all those people who took the loans fault. Quite an attitude given that the FBI has made over 600 mortgage fraud arrests in the last three months. Phil Graham changed the laws to where it was open season on firt time home buyers, the least savvy of the real estate market. How dare these folks allow themselves be taken advantage of by criminals sitting in the biggest banks in town. People like myself were fooled into trusting "reputable" lenders like Wells Fargo. Big mistake.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Trippy lives in a place that isn't as effected as most of the country. And he makes a lot more than most of the country. And I find his compassion indicitive of those that are not effected. Now when it hits Trippy personally, his tune will change real quick.>> Sorry. Why should people making poor choices be bailed out at taxpayer’s expense? What's next? Reimbursement for divorce expenses when you made a poor choice when you got married? I agree 100% with going after those who committed mortgage fraud and I wouldn't mind seeing a few real estate people sued for giving poor advice. But when push comes to shove, a person can't be expected to be bailed out of poor decisions by the government. I have a good deal of sympathy for people in your position. I think it was the lower income folks who really got taken by the real estate industry. But for the social climbers with a good income who wanted to move up to a McMansion? Why on earth should anyone feel sorry for them? They were experienced in purchasing real estate and should have known better. I'm not about to have my taxes go up 2 cents because they wanted Sub Zero appliances and granite countertops. As for making a lot more than most of the country; my wife and I have a very nice income, but it doesn't even come close to being wealthy. It isn't even very close to the $200K mark that some people claim is still middle class. But here is where personal responsibility comes in. Even though my wife and I have both always worked (except for 5 months after each child was born), we have always structured our expenses so that we could cover them with one income if we had too. We have lived substantially below our means. We live in a very nice but modest house while many others with our income would be going after the McMansions. We've never purchased (or leased) an automobile costing more than $25K even though many of our peers love to tool around in their Volvos, Beemers and Lexi. So when we've spent our entire adult lives living very conservatively so that we could always cover any contingency that came up; why should I have my tax money used to bail out people who “wanted it all now� Sorry. If that makes me heartless, so be it.
Originally Posted By sharon2 ^^^You're not heartless, you're smart!! I'm in real estate & it is insane!! Everyone is the Jones'!! so they think!! People are spending a very high % of thier income on a mortgage. No room for emergencies or food!! We bought a new truck..neighbors bought a new truck. We bought a 4-wheeler..neighbors bought two 4-wheelers. We bought a boat and I'm still waiting to look out my window to see thiers!! I'm not making this up!! they've got issues!!
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<ain't that the truth - try it with 3 drivers ( soon to be 4 ) on that card. None of the cards gets paid in full any more - which is wrong and I know it. But since my company has decided not onto freeze pensions, but salary also - and with my oldest on a $500/month COBRA plan for health ins while shefinishes school - that 5% here and 10% there increase on everything else is killing people.>> We just reduced benefits for new hires at Bill and Dave's computer and printer company. Lower 401(k) matches and no more contributions to the retirement medical savings account (currently $1200 per year). The number one complaint on morale surveys here is the lack of pay raises, even though we are raking in record profits. My division will beat "aspire" goals this year, yet I suspect that the "variable performance pay" will be less than last years.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<No Trippy, I am doing no such thing. the market doesn't suck everywhere, but it does suck in MOST major areas of the USA. If it's still great in your community, more power to you. But I'm looking nationally.>> These days if you have price increases of any kind, your market is unusual and is doing exceptionally well, even if its only 1% appreciation.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<add health care to your list of 2 - to make this 4 major issues. My wife works in health care admin for a hospital- and the # ofpeople with no insruance is staggering. Nowthat my oldest daughter turned 23 and while finishing school - she needed coverage - no problem COBRA - for over $500/mo ! How many people can afford that ? >> vb, how soon do you think Corporate America will cut health insurance altogether? I am already hearing rumblings of this at the company that just bought EDS. I figure it will be within 3 years and will start in tech firms.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I'm sorry, but when we can bail out major corporations, while letting hard-working people get by on their own ... I dunno ... it just seems so anti-American.>> Its called socialism for the rich. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>>No one really likes paying $4 per gallon for gas, but in reality it doesn't hurt most people.< Wow - you really don't live in my world, Trippy.>> I agree. I see people filling up their pickups (30+ gallon tanks) with really long faces. A lot of these are ordinary people who make very middle of the road wages. Having to pay an extra $200+ extra per truck per month has got to hurt.
Originally Posted By Socrates "<<Since my name was mentioned, I have to ask: Spirit, why do you think the Space Shuttle was a boondoggle?>> Uhm ... ah .. I was kinda referring to the more famous Socrates. But still, I'll give you my take on the shuttle." You mean there are others? Anyway, I was curious because I couldn't tell if you thought the Shuttle was a good idea poorly executed, or a bad idea, or you were simply against space travel. It would be interesting to compare thoughts on space goals, but that would be carrying this thread to a whole different level. Maybe some other time... Socrates "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Where you refuse to acknowledge that the pristine areas just may have to be sacrificed to the overwhelming current need, I refuse to see color in Obama. Thee are obviously people who only see a black man - I see the best of the current choices for actually instigating the much needed change that everyone's crying for.>> I agree with everything you said, Danny. I just fear that way too many people are living in the 1800s when in comes to race in this country. And they'll say one thing and do another when it comes to voting. I really want to be proven wrong. <<I'm 51, I've seen a lot of changes in society, and I've never seen any single factor influence society at my level as much as the current gas crisis.>> I'm not nearly as ancient ... but I agree. I'll go one further. I've never seen so many people hurting financially and so close (if not beyond) the breaking point in my life. <<Glad you're doing OK, though!>> I do am glad Trippy is doing well (seriously). But far too many others aren't. And I am very worried for them and our nation.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<add health care to your list of 2 - to make this 4 major issues. My wife works in health care admin for a hospital- and the # ofpeople with no insruance is staggering. Nowthat my oldest daughter turned 23 and while finishing school - she needed coverage - no problem COBRA - for over $500/mo ! How many people can afford that ? >> vb, how soon do you think Corporate America will cut health insurance altogether? I am already hearing rumblings of this at the company that just bought EDS. I figure it will be within 3 years and will start in tech firms.< I have a close friend who hasbeen VP level in Comp & Ben for 2 different large corps over the past 20 years or so.He also is on a Presidential advisory council for said topic. He has told me for non union companies - 5 years max providing benefits and most will phase them out from new hires first while continuing to double digit % increase employee contributions for older employees. Also have already started to cut back significantly on offerings - HMO's going away etc.. My monthly contribution has gone from $0 - 8 years ago to well over $650 a month and that is for one less person ( that Inow pay COBRA for) - and the coverage has higher deductibles - out of pocket max seems to rise about 50% a year,and less is covered ( i.e. mostpreventative no also going away. My friend gave me heads up on all that has happened so far and has been dead on. Also traditional pensions for almost all workers will also be dead in the same time frame. ( exceptions gov't workers - teachers) - For those who have a traditional pension plan - please be aware - it could go away in a heartbeat. The only guarantee is for money you have out in -- if like most plans it was company onlycontribution, it could be gone tomorrow. Trust me, I and a few hundred thousand or so of my co workers found that out about 7 years ago.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Sorry. Why should people making poor choices be bailed out at taxpayer’s expense? >> Why? Simple. We do it for Big Business ALL THE TIME. We do it for business that are poorly run ... sometimes illegally. We do it for comapnies that should cease to exist. But individuals ... the backbone of our country? Nope. Let them learn responsibility. BS I say. If Enron, United Airlines, Worldcom, Bear Stearns and many others can be propped up by this government, then I don't want to hear any excuses for why we should let people lose their homes -- and that even goes for if they bought a house for $200,000 more than they should have with sub zero appliances and granite counters. It's really as simple as that. When Big Business learns to play by the same rules that individuals are expected to (in other words, if a person can't simply walk out on a $10,000 line of credit, then a business simply can't make $100 million or even a billion in debt disappear) then I'll be right behind Trippy in the responsibility line. Call me when that happens at 555-FOR-SPIRIT.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <My division will beat "aspire" goals this year, yet I suspect that the "variable performance pay" will be less than last years< we had record profits in the Corp history last year - here is what they did to the 'variable pay' hook for us. They cut the bucket in half - saying OK x % will apply because we had record profits - but unless you are paid below market average for your job,you will only get 50% of that bonus from now on. also they tie it to 'performance'. Let's say for the sake of argument you can be a 1,2, or3 performer and 1's get a higher % based on contribution. Let's also assume those 1's make up 15% of the company. Very easy fix- send out a memo to all mgmt that only 7% ofthe company can attain the top performance ranking from now on - instant savings! and yet they wonder why morale is in the crapper
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm sorry, but when we can bail out major corporations, while letting hard-working people get by on their own ... I dunno ... it just seems so anti-American.>> <<Its called socialism for the rich. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses.>> Exactly. But socialized medicine? Forget it. I just don't understand why there isn't more anger about what's going on in general, although I feel the vice grip the religious right has taken on this country has something to do with that (and I won't say one more word about religion on this site, just putting out my honest opinion).
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'm not nearly as ancient ... but I agree. I'll go one further. I've never seen so many people hurting financially and so close (if not beyond) the breaking point in my life.>> <<I do am glad Trippy is doing well (seriously). But far too many others aren't. And I am very worried for them and our nation.>> I guess you've probably softened your criticism of the Wal-Mart crowd carrying grocery bags through the lobbies of DVC Resorts now that a higher class of person needs to do it. You MAYBE now even appreciate the advantages of the Disney Dining Plan for those not quite a rich as Trippy. Though I doubt it. ;-) I love ya Spirit, but I've never seen a tiger change his stripes so quickly!!
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<<I'm 51, I've seen a lot of changes in society, and I've never seen any single factor influence society at my level as much as the current gas crisis.>> I'm not nearly as ancient ... but I agree. I'll go one further. I've never seen so many people hurting financially and so close (if not beyond) the breaking point in my life. < I'm 53 and I agree with both of those statements. And yes I am somewhat hidden away in what appeared to be a subruban Shangri-la ( in fact picked as best place to live in US twice in last 5 years) - and I see the hurt happening here also. People over extended ( and yes one can say that's their own fault) - and stressed to the max. I know so many people really struggling - many who have lost jobs/careers - and lost benefits etc..
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You mean there are others?>> No. I was kidding ... yeah <<Anyway, I was curious because I couldn't tell if you thought the Shuttle was a good idea poorly executed, or a bad idea, or you were simply against space travel.>> I am absolutely not against space travel. I love it. I am for it. Completely, totally, 100% even if there are kiddies starving on earth. Hell, even seeing WALL*E (which was GREAT!) today added to my conviction that we should be out exploring the cosmos. The shuttle was a bad idea for the time and what we needed, but moreso it was executed so poorly. From the heat tiles that plagued its development to the booster o-rings that brought down Challenger. In other words, it could have been what it was advertised as if corners hadn't of been cut at every turn. But it was such an expensive boondoggle (love that word). Remember how we spent a few billion to build a west coast launch site at Vandenburg Air Force base and just about when it was completed decided we weren't gonna use it? Decisions like that plagued the program. And NASA is still being run as poorly as a WDW theme park. The talk about Aries is not promising nor the fact that engineers have privately come up with a rocket they say will cut 3-4 years off the start and stands a much better chance of flying yet NASA administrators are killing any chance of Congress hearing about it since they've chosen Aries to get us back to the moon and establish a base. <<It would be interesting to compare thoughts on space goals, but that would be carrying this thread to a whole different level. Maybe some other time...>> No time like the present. Besides, it beats talking about the economy!
