Originally Posted By fkurucz << I live in MA we have snow, lots of it, I can't drive a Prius!>> Snow doesn't stop Coloradans from driving Priuses.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Nope. That's right. But see we knew this was coming ... we knew this decades ago. Let's say we actually planned for a future with limited or no reliance on fossil fules back in 1978. By now, we wouldn't need it and we wouldn't be in the mess we're now in. We're like a heroin addict looking for our next fix. << It would have taken a mighty effort from a lot of corporations, and especially the government, but I think we would have been close to being weaned off of fossil fuels had we started 30 years ago. We've beeb addicted to oil for over 100 years now. It would seem the rest of the world is catching up with us, in their craving for oil. The absolutely fantastic corporation that I use to be a part of, have been working on alternative fuel vehicles for as long as they've been in business. They will celebrated their 101st year anniversary in August. You name it they've tried it, from electric to natural gas, to fuel cells, to propane, to a full hydralic hybrid. They have partnered up with the E.P.A., and some of the best corporations world wide in alternative fuel vehicles. They are completely committed to having a totally green fleet. The problem is that research moves at a snails pace. I wouldn't even want to think how much more it would slow down when you get 40 or 50 Congressional committees involved. >> I'd go back even further, all the way to Nixon. But all I remember from Carter (and please realize I was a young kid in the 70s) is his answers were put your AC on 78 degrees (mine is always on 72, sorry, us Spirits likes it cool) and drive 55. << I try to forget President Nixon every chance I get, but you're right, that was the first oil shortage we had. It was manufactured by O.P.E.C., and we should have learned right then they were going to hold us hostage in the future if we didn't do something. >> We've ruined or come damn close almost every area of natural beauty in our nation << Unfortunately with an ever expanding population it's bound to happen. >> don't know if you've ever been to Alaska, << I was suppose to have a layover there many years ago, but ended up flying straight into LAX. So the answer is no. I still regret not being able to spend a little time there. >> ... and at the end still want to sit down and share a supream pizza with! ;-) << I knew I was going to pay for that mistake!
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 And where is Fe Maiden from? Having driven to Disney in 2001, and to Charleston, SC in 2002, I believe drivers in NJ, NY and Ct are 10 times worse than Mass.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It would have taken a mighty effort from a lot of corporations, and especially the government, but I think we would have been close to being weaned off of fossil fuels had we started 30 years ago.>> It can be done. I saw something a few weeks ago about Iceland and how they were totally dependent on oil in the early 70s and vowed to drop the habit. And they've succeeded. I wish I had paid more attention to it, but was doing eight things at once. << We've beeb addicted to oil for over 100 years now. It would seem the rest of the world is catching up with us, in their craving for oil.>> Yeah. And again, something we clearly should have seen coming. We're the biggest reason behind China and India's growth (and not in a good way IMHO) so we should have realized they'd get off those bikes and into cars. <<The absolutely fantastic corporation that I use to be a part of, have been working on alternative fuel vehicles for as long as they've been in business. They will celebrated their 101st year anniversary in August. You name it they've tried it, from electric to natural gas, to fuel cells, to propane, to a full hydralic hybrid. They have partnered up with the E.P.A., and some of the best corporations world wide in alternative fuel vehicles. They are completely committed to having a totally green fleet. The problem is that research moves at a snails pace. I wouldn't even want to think how much more it would slow down when you get 40 or 50 Congressional committees involved.>> The ice cap will melt quicker (hell, I think it might anyway) >> I'd go back even further, all the way to Nixon. But all I remember from Carter (and please realize I was a young kid in the 70s) is his answers were put your AC on 78 degrees (mine is always on 72, sorry, us Spirits likes it cool) and drive 55. << <<I try to forget President Nixon every chance I get, but you're right, that was the first oil shortage we had. It was manufactured by O.P.E.C., and we should have learned right then they were going to hold us hostage in the future if we didn't do something.>> Exactly. How many decades do we waste before realizing this needed to be done years ago? It's the equivalent of having a little growth and ignoring it until you have a tumor the size of a grapefruit. We simply are oil whores and our politicos are whores to the oil lobby. It never ends. Our economy wasn't set up to support $135 a barrel oil. It simply won't hold up. I was in Starbucks today when I overheard one of the kid's saying he was so glad he got his check since his car 'was on fumes and he didn't think he'd even make it to work' ... sad thing is his WHOLE check will go for gas. People aren't getting raises to compensate for higher gas prices. That single mom of four kids who was scraping by on $26,000 a year can't suddenly pay $60 for what used to be a $20 fill up ... people just simply chose to ignore the facts. I used to always pay my oil company credit card in full when it came in. That stopped about 18 months ago. I now owe them $800. That's a direct result of the price of gas, nothing else. >> We've ruined or come damn close almost every area of natural beauty in our nation << <<Unfortunately with an ever expanding population it's bound to happen. >> I disagree (naturaly) ... urban sprawl is the result of no controls on business/growth. You can grow a commuunity without spreading out. Without just chopping down every tree and paving over every green space. But again, that requires some folks in government with forethought and vision and not beholden to developers ... >> don't know if you've ever been to Alaska, << <<I was suppose to have a layover there many years ago, but ended up flying straight into LAX. So the answer is no. I still regret not being able to spend a little time there.>> You NEED to go! Seriously, that place gets in your blood (kind of like WDW first did for me, yet in a completely different way) and I truly wish I could buy a place up there. I look at Alaska and Hawaii as the two states we haven't screwed up yet. >> ... and at the end still want to sit down and share a supream pizza with! ;-) << <<I knew I was going to pay for that mistake! >> Hey, I'll buy the pizza. You just supply the drinks. No, Michelob please. Some decent tequila would be nice!
Originally Posted By sun-n-fun Hopefully you all mean NY as in the city. Us Western NY drivers are fine
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden <<And where is Fe Maiden from?>> I'm from Jersey, home of traffic circles and getting in the right lane to make a left-hand turn.
Originally Posted By dshyates OH drivers are the worst. I live in WV and they come through all the time. They get in the left lane, set the cruise at 55mph, and stay there till they hit FL. Its commonly refered to as the "Buckeye Roadblock". You'ld think they would get the hint when everytime they take a half hour to pass a truck a 23 mile long traffic jam backs up behind them. Then when they get around the truck there's a steady stream of cars passing them on the right, flipping them off. Why do people ride in the left lane and force everyone to go around on the right? I know some of you guys do it, you know it pisses people off yet you do it anyway. What's up with that? Come on and fess up if your one of those drivers. I have always wondered what they are thinking.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Why do people ride in the left lane and force everyone to go around on the right? I know some of you guys do it, you know it pisses people off yet you do it anyway. What's up with that? Come on and fess up if your one of those drivers. I have always wondered what they are thinking. >>> Not only is it rude, unsafe, and inconducive to traffic flow, it's also illegal in many states, even if you're going the speed limit. I wish the police would ticket this offense more than they do.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<People aren't getting raises to compensate for higher gas prices. That single mom of four kids who was scraping by on $26,000 a year can't suddenly pay $60 for what used to be a $20 fill up ... people just simply chose to ignore the facts.>> A lot of people are getting no pay raises whatsoever. At the multinational where I work ($10 Billion profit last year) the number 1 complaint on the morale surveys is that nobody has been getting raises for the past few years. Even people who are getting promotions are not getting raises.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Even people who are getting promotions are not getting raises. >>> That happened to me once - I got a promotion but no pay raise!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> It can be done. I saw something a few weeks ago about Iceland and how they were totally dependent on oil in the early 70s and vowed to drop the habit. And they've succeeded. I wish I had paid more attention to it, but was doing eight things at once. << Even though the countries are vastly different, our Government should be open to studying all ideas. >> I disagree (naturaly) ... urban sprawl is the result of no controls on business/growth. You can grow a commuunity without spreading out. Without just chopping down every tree and paving over every green space. << Yes that's very true, but you have to take into account the social aspect of urban sprawl. I think that is the major contributor. >> Would a bottle of Passion Azteca Tequila be adequate?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<A lot of people are getting no pay raises whatsoever. At the multinational where I work ($10 Billion profit last year) the number 1 complaint on the morale surveys is that nobody has been getting raises for the past few years. Even people who are getting promotions are not getting raises.>> Yes. That's what unbridled capitalism does. This isn't Europe where governments step in and protect workers. Here it's all about Wall Street, and the worker means absolutely nothing. And it's why no one will ever sell me on the idea we're the best nation on earth in 2008.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Would a bottle of Passion Azteca Tequila be adequate? More than adequete ... (by the way, it's 1:41 a.m. and I'm about to have leftever pizza ... don't know why, but I felt you had a right to know!)
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>><<A lot of people are getting no pay raises whatsoever. At the multinational where I work ($10 Billion profit last year) the number 1 complaint on the morale surveys is that nobody has been getting raises for the past few years. Even people who are getting promotions are not getting raises.>> Yes. That's what unbridled capitalism does. This isn't Europe where governments step in and protect workers. Here it's all about Wall Street, and the worker means absolutely nothing. And it's why no one will ever sell me on the idea we're the best nation on earth in 2008.<<< I am afraid it happens here in Europe too. One multinational I worked for did not give any raises or bonuses to most employees for 3 years in row (in the same timefame neither did microsoft or IBM). They gave me bonuses (but not raises), took Sarah and I to Dubai to a "leadership conference", and I got a promotion but no raise. They did these things to try to keep me. When I moved on to the next company, I got a 66% pay rise for about the same amount if not a little less work. Taught me to keep my eyes open. A part of me is sad I was at that other firm for 8 years, but the optimist in me says, I wouldn't be doing what I am today without those learning experiences. But I drove 460 miles yesterday, and the fuel ran me $200, that's got to hurt anyone.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< When I moved on to the next company, I got a 66% pay rise for about the same amount if not a little less work. >>> This is very common in corporate America: the willingness to pay top dollar for qualified new recruits, but high reluctance to give raises to existing employees, even if they are equally qualified or important to the success of the company. I think this based on the knowledge that the vast majority of employees that are otherwise in a good position will not switch to another employer just for a pay raise. At least, not enough in aggregate to make the above-mentioned strategy counter productive in the short run.
Originally Posted By danyoung Spirit, I generally agree with what you've been saying, in that the current problems are the result of decades of our leaders (and ourselves) keeping their heads in the sand and not dealing with the upcoming shortages. But I do have to dispute this one point on the Valdez - >What I am saying is one thing directly led to another. If we hadn't been drilling there to begin with, then the drunk wouldn't have been piloting that tanker and that horrific spill wouldn't have happened.< While it's true that the Valdez wouldn't have been in that region if oil didn't need to be transported, I don't think it's fair to blame one thing on the other. That's like saying the Challenger blew up, so we shouldn't be involved with space exploration. I feel that areas that we've considered off limits to drilling are just going to have to face the fact that the needs of the populace are now outweighing the benefits of a beautiful view. It's sad, and it was completely avoidable, and research and development needs to continue into alternatives. But for at least the next few years, oil is gonna be critical, and every new development is going to help ease the transition.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^^Once the panic sets in, possibly induced by rationing, we will be drilling everywhere we can. Of course, unless we pass laws forbidding the export of petroleum its entirely possible that any incremental US production would get gobbled up by the global market.
