Originally Posted By utahjosh A different view of how to follow Christ's mandate of helping the poor is not the same as not following Christ's mandate.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox How is giving millionaires and billionaires greater tax breaks while increasing the working poor's taxes "a different view"? Save the Mormon excuses, Josh. I've heard them all before. Rich arses like Romney and Ryan hate the poor. Period. Their policies will continue to grow poverty in this country, not reduce it. Trickle down is a myth. It's had over 30 years to prove it works. It doesn't. Mitt is a poor Christian.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Rich arses like Romney and Ryan hate the poor. Period.> I don't believe the same as you. I'm a poor Christian, too. Trying my best, but i'm poor at it.
Originally Posted By ecdc I don't think Romney hates the poor. I just think he's exceptionally naive about what it really means to be poor because of 1) His lifelong wealth, and 2) His inability to understand that not everyone has a strong community like the LDS Church.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I think you're being too gracious, ecdc. I find it difficult to believe as the former Governor of Massachusetts, that Romney didn't have reasonable access to what the poor in his state were going through on a regular basis. Yes, I know he's a sheltered rich boy. But it's not like he hasn't been involved in government before, where this sort of thing keeps hitting your desk on a daily basis. Romney may not hate the poor, technically, but he is at minimum, completely indifferent to them. If he weren't, he wouldn't be out on the campaign trail lying to seniors about how his support of Ryan's budget is "better" for them and their future, all the while knowing that over $800 billion will be cut from Medicaid because of it.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Even for democrats, he has taken class warfare, > This one really bugs me. "Class warfare" is a big buzz phrase on the noise machine, but it's total horse pucky. And what does this "class warfare" consist of? They can never say, except for Democrats wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy. To the level they were at in the 90's. Wow. Call Pravda, quick!! Wanting to raise the top tax rate from 35 to 39%. Which has already proven, in the 90's, to NOT be an onerous rate, and to NOT in any way hurt the economy or job creation. If that's "class warfare," then we already HAD class warfare in the 90's. Were we all riding around on tractors and waving to each other with a hearty "hello, comrade!" each morning? How did I miss that? Oh yeah... because it never happened. Saying that it's a good idea to raise taxes back to 90's levels, which were not harmful to the economy and which would at least close the deficit somewhat, is a perfectly reasonable policy position. It's NOT FREAKING CLASS WARFARE! But the noise machine insists it is, and its acolytes parrot it. <but i just want to make sure you guys realize that WE, genuinely believe this is the most viciously deceitful, void of conscience campaign we have ever seen by the obama administration. this isnt some spin, but how we realy feel.> Oh, I have no doubt of that. It's completely divorced from reality, but I have no doubt you do. I just showed a few posts ago how politifact rates the Romney campaign worse on lying, especially the worst "pants on fire" level (1% of Obama's claims, 9% of Romney's). So how can Obama's be the worst ever, if it's not even as bad as Romney's this very year? Because the noise machine says it is. Over and over and over. And its listeners lap it up.
Originally Posted By ecdc Josh, I believe you when you say Romney has a different view of how to help the poor. So the bald reality is his plan will cut funds to the poor and the elderly. Period. So how do remedy that? If he's a Christian, what's the plan? The problem is, there is no plan beyond "private charities should handle it." Am I missing something? And what if they don't? Charitable giving is way down since the recession. Romney's plan will hurt people, the very people Jesus said we should take care of. I really don't see how you an reconcile that, no matter how much you philosophically believe government shouldn't be in the business of helping people. The hard truth is, Mitt's plans will make people suffer.
Originally Posted By ecdc Post 67 speaks truth. That's what gets me about the intense dislike of Obama, the cries of socialism, etc. Every single thing he's done has been done before, often by Republican Presidents and often with good success. If Obama's a socialist, what the heck was Eisenhower? Britain has universal healthcare? What are they, a bunch of Commies? It's such a childish lack of understanding history or precedent, and in some of the more extreme cases of the hatred of Obama, it's why some of us cry racism. Seriously, why else do people hate this guy who is a moderate (at most) so much?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Seriously, why else do people hate this guy who is a moderate (at most) so much?>> Bingo. Conservatives keep calling Obama a far left liberal socialist. Really? Compared to Senator Sanders or Representative Kucinich, President Obama is a moderate Republican. It's all about the race card. And the Republicans, including Romney, keep playing it. Over and over and over...
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Sanders ran for mayor of Burlington, Vt. back when it was controlled by the "good old boy" network of Democrats. He was a wild haired, socialist from New York City and wasn't taken seriously by the Democrats. He won! Turned out to be a pretty good mayor, we didn't turn into a socialist state or anything. He ran for congress and won and later ran for senator and won. He ran as an independent, still is one I think. For all his unkemptness and rhetoric he has been a very good representative of the state of Vermont. Sometimes the cover of the book tells you nothing about what is inside. Excuse my little paraphrase there.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I now return you to the "Great Obama/Romney Judgement Day" brought to you by the all knowing religions of the world.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Sanders ran for mayor of Burlington, Vt. back when it was controlled by the "good old boy" network of Democrats. He was a wild haired, socialist from New York City and wasn't taken seriously by the Democrats. He won! Turned out to be a pretty good mayor, we didn't turn into a socialist state or anything.>> Oh Goof... I didn't know you were from Vermont. One of the places we've thought of retiring in, bitter cold winters and all. I've attended events with Sen Sanders here in San Francisco. And I always listen to 'Brunch with Bernie' on Thom Hartmann's radio show each Friday. Sen Sanders is a Democratic Socialist. I don't know of any other politicians in this party, but the DSA is a bonafide political party. I highly recommend Bernie's book, "The Speech," which is a transcript of the 8-hour speech he gave in 2010 on the floor of the Senate. I wish we had more Senators in Congress just like him!!
Originally Posted By TomSawyer It's odd that the party that goes to great lengths to wrap itself in Christianity is the one least willing to help the poor, tend to the sick, or to treat prisoners with respect. It's almost as though they've only read the Old Testament and skipped the New Testament entirely.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>One of the places we've thought of retiring in, bitter cold winters and all.<<< Kinda points out how different we all think. I couldn't wait to retire and get the hell out of those bitter cold winters which can and do last from November thru March.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<It's odd that the party that goes to great lengths to wrap itself in Christianity is the one least willing to help the poor, tend to the sick, or to treat prisoners with respect.>> No kidding. The day that these so-called Christian conservatives can logically reconcile the Beatitudes and their admiration for Ayn Rand is the day I will relent and retire completely from political debate. What a twisted philosophy these folks have.
