Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>That entire article is yet another piece of rhetoric.<< But at least it's rhetoric backed up with interviews and examples.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe examples of companies going into bankruptcy before they even partnered with walmart and interviews from disgruntled ex employees. Good sources there.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I encourage you to read the article. I darkbeered it for the quotes I wanted, but there are plenty of CEOs who say the company is tough but fair.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 On the topic, I'm not really sure how I feel about Walmart operating a bank. I guess since many other chain stores (especially grocery stores) have their own banks, Walmart should be able to as well. As for the whole issue with Walmart itself, I can only speak from personal experience. It's funny that people bring up Target as a counterpoint, but not surprising since they are very similar. I live in New Jersey right accross from New York City, and there were no Walmarts at all in the area. However there were a couple Target stores. Well, two years ago (I think) Walmart built it's first store in the area, and it was about 10 minutes from my house. Closer than any of the Targets (who also built a brand new store close by...but not as close as Walmart). Anyway, I went to check out the Walmart on it's opening weekend, just to see what they had to offer. It was really strange. It was a brand new store and, yeah, the fixtures and stuff looked new, but the store had already been trashed. Rows of boxes were stacked in the aisles in such a way that you could not get to the other side and had to go all the way around the store. It was just a mess. The merchandise was also of a generally lower quality than Target. After that experience, I had no desire to go back to Walmart for anything. I still find reason to visit Target often, as they really do seem to pay attention to quality. They even have affordable home furnishings that look very well designed, and high-end...which Walmart does not. I really hope Target can stay on top of their game and not lose any ground to Walmart. Anyway, those are just my observations. I don't hate Walmart, but just don't care to go shopping there again.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj I see the positives and the negatives in the Wal*Mart business model -- no doubt about it. I can attest to dirty stores that have turned me off for darkening the door of a Wal*Mart for months. I don't think Wal*Mart is the great satan of retailing, however. In this particular instance, I think the banking industry needs a real wake up call to modernize the way they market their products. Banks have turned into massive fee generators that nickel and dime depositors to death. 20 years ago, when ATMs were brand new and expensive technology there was no such thing an ATM fee -- but now that the technology is ubiquitous and providing a low cost alternative to flesh and blood tellers, banks feel the need to charge us a fee for something that used to be free. It makes no sense. I'm fortunate enough to have a bank that essentially has zero fees, rebates fees when they are charged at an ATM, and provides healthy rebates on every debit or credit card purchase. I can't get that at my local Bank of America or Wells Fargo. And small depositors that represent the working class of America never get anything but the massive fees when they need to use small accounts for day to day financial business. Between the banks and local check cashing services that are sprouting up on every corner, I think the poorest of Americans are getting fleeced by big business banks. Can Wal*Mart change all of that? I think they have the ability to serve a low income customer with low cost banking options that undercut the current uncompetitive banks out there. I have no need to be a depositor of Wal*Mart Bank, but I do think there is a need out there for other consumers. Even more, I think it is just plain wrong for politicians to block this deal when we allow every other consumer business out there to do the same thing -- even other discounters like Target and Sears.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "<<< I don't think Wal*Mart is the great satan of retailing, >>> I do." I'd have to agree, they're Satan. In a former life, I worked 16 years for a major upscale retailer no longer in business here in the West and then while in law school, I spent about six years working at Target. Competition is supposed to be good and healthy for business, but Wal-Mart will have none of that. They sincerely want to drive everyone else out of business and be a consumer's only choice. While people might be enamored of their low prices, you get what you pay for. Their hard and soft goods, big ticket items and variou sundry items are not made to last. They expect you to come back and purchase a replacement. Companies such as Target often have their policies dictated by Wal-Mart as they are usually reactions to what Wal-Mart does. It's one thing to be number one, and it's another to want to be the only one.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj I don't get the statements about products not made to last. I can buy the same products at Wal*Mart that I get at Target, K-Mart, Best Buy, etc. I buy the same brands of groceries at Wal*Mart that I get at Food Lion and Kroger's -- only I pay 15% more when I shop at the regular grocery store. The name brands I buy at Wal*Mart don't seem to last any shorter period of time than the ones I buy elsewhere -- I just pay more for the ones I but at a non-discount retailer. I've shopped the "high-end" products at Target -- really just the same stuff as Wal*Mart with a "high-end" paint job. You are paying for paint and packaging. Any time you buy off-brand products, you are probably entering into an area of lesser quality. I've bought the off-brand stuff that Target stocks, and not been very impressed. If I were to point at a retailer that shoves shoddy merchandise onto the shelves, I would probably point to Dollar Tree. Wal*Mart puts the same stuff on the shelves that everyone else does. I am not a frequent Wal*Mart shopper. I go about once every 2 months. However, if I was subsiding on a lesser income, I would probably shop there a lot more. Again, I think Wal*Mart serves the low income segment of the population very well. In a country where the mininum wage hasn't risen in nearly 10 years, the low income segment of the population needs a retailer like Wal*Mart to aggressively keep prices low. Otherwise, a huge segment of the population wouldn't be able to afford anything.
Originally Posted By cmpaley I think people are talking about hard and soft items like electronics and housewares, not consumables like food and paper towels and laundry detergent. Tide is tide wherever you buy it, but the quality of sheets and towels purchased at Target or JC Penney will probably be superior to the same kind of products purchased at Wal*Mart.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj I think people envision the quality of products they purchase at non-Wal*Mart to be higher just to make them feel better about their justification for not shopping there. It's all made in the same Chinese factory.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>It's all made in the same Chinese factory.<< Hence the problem, in my opinion. Walmart's insistence that vendors reduce their prices every year on products that don't change forces vendors to either use shoddier and cheaper materials and processes or to discontinue the stable product and to replace it with something "new" just to keep their profit margins up. Remember how toothbrushes really didn't change much until just a few years ago? Now there are so many spurious types on the shelves, and that's in part because of Walmart's pricing policies. Walmart wants the price on stable consumer goods to drop by a certain percentage every year, and it doesn't matter when the costs to make those items goes up. Manufacturers might use the same line in China or make a product for Walmart or Target, so Walmart's insistence on ever-decreasing costs is forcing manufacturers to sell the same reduced-quality merchandise to Target, or to discontinue the product line entirely.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe are you saying that walmart has changed the dental hygiene industry? be careful, you dont want to pull a muscle.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 I'm surprised that other big chain stores don't gang up on Walmart for doing that. If Walmart is forcing vendors to cut costs and produce cheaper products that are also going to sit on competitor's shelves, I'm surprised we haven't heard more companies complaining...unless it helps them too, and they turn a blind eye since it helps their bottom line.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer No, Joe, I'm saying Walmart has changed retail and manufacturing. You don't agree that they have?
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe retail maybe, but companies for decades have always tried to reduce costs over the years. Auto manufacturers move their plants out of the US because of cheaper labor. Electronics companies have done that. The truth behind it all is that manufacturing anything in the US costs nearly 2x than producing it anywhere else in the world. Higher labor costs, greenpeace freaks and their way overthetop environmental lobby and politicians that know nothing about any of it. The simple truth is tha walmart has more stores than othe retailers and buys in bigger volumes. Than controls the shipping and distributing of the products they sell. Higher purchase volume creats lower purchase price. Simple as that. But your looking for someone to blame for your VCR breaking and walmart seems to be the flavor the day. (yes, Im sure you didnt buy a VCR from walmart, but it was a metaphore, so dont go all out of your mind) Well the decade really. Everyone wants to blame someone else for their problems and they just need to accept that that is just the way things are. Sometimes things break.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer >>Higher purchase volume creats lower purchase price. Simple as that.<< It does, but Walmart takes it further and tells their suppliers to lower the price even further every year their product is in the stores, even if production costs are going up.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Look it's like Sears and Arrow Shirts cira 1980... Sears used to find a middle sized factory, in a small town and make a 5 year deal to order ALL of their shirts from said factory, therby increasing said factory production by say 500% in a year. However to get this 5 year deal, said factory had to sell said shirts for say 20% less to Sears. Well, that's fine until year 5. In year 5 let's say Sears comes back and says, "Nice job, but if you want our deal to renew, you have to produce at 30% less cost to us." Well what could the factory do? They have incresed their employment by 500% in a small town no less. So they have to say, "Okay sure, we'll do it." How? Well either pay the employees less, which is very hard, or cut costs of production, or cut quality of raw materials, somewhere the cut has to get passed back down to the end user, or consumer... you and me. It's all part of the corporate circle of life. Price goes down, quality goes down, eventually quality of life goes down. I went to Walmart TODAY becuase of this thread. BUT I bought a Microsoft product, thinking, WalMart isn't going to dictate anything to Microsoft. The price for the software is 8% less than Staples. I am not ANTI-Walmart, but certainly do realize that any savings has to be made up SOMEWHERE. It's not magic.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I used to shop at Walmart all the time for housewares when I lived in Missouri. It was the only game in town unless I wanted to drive all the way to Kansas City. But the rural Walmarts I've been to have always seemed to be brighter and cleaner and friendlier than the urban ones I've been to. It's like they are two different chains. If I still lived in the rural midwest, I'd probably still be shopping there. But their stores around Seattle are just unpleasant places to be in. They don't seem to take any pride in their work, and it shows in how the store looks. I'm the same way when it comes to shopping as I am when it comes to theme parks. I'll pay a little extra to go to the place that is cleaner, brighter, more comfortable, and where the company has pride in what it does. That's why I go to Disneyland instead of Six Flags, and why I go to Target instead of Fred Meyer or Walmart.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe <<I went to Walmart TODAY becuase of this thread. BUT I bought a Microsoft product, thinking, WalMart isn't going to dictate anything to Microsoft. The price for the software is 8% less than Staples. >> Walmart purchases more from them than Staples. Of course I would never purchase software from either store. Or any computer related anything from them. But thats just me.
