Originally Posted By FaMulan I had to expound a little in the other thread due to my personal beliefs. However, based on that Poker Night Conversation and other's I've seen, People are being stupid and giving into fear when they should be attempting to hope. A friend of mine said this morning that after every election she has stated that she hopes things will get better and will support the President until he gives her clear reason to lose that hope. But those who believe that the current administration wants to disarm the citizenry are listening to filth-spewing pundits and not going to the government sites and seeing how long firearms legislations have been hanging around Congress and what the President has said in regards to the Second Amendment. Now is not the time to overreact in such an irresponsible way as buying up guns with no training and giving into fear and paranoia. That's one of the way people get hurt or killed by people using guns.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder The people at Poker Night unfortunately seem to be the types of individuals that had their minds made up long before the election, and have no sense of history. FDR was accused of much the same thing and despite the fact he led this country out of the Depression, people still used his name in vain. The most recent election is proof some people still do. Obama might well turn out to be a bust, but the same people who denigrate him less than 100 days into office are the same ones who offer no solution of their own and would rather complain than contribute.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Absolutely right. Also, I'm with mawnck. Poverty breeds crime, and crime always goes up during hard times. And it's got nothing to do with skin tone (ever read Oliver Twist?) but there are those ready to convince weak-minded people that it's all about that. The real danger isn't street crime, it's these paranoid would-be "saviors" of the country armed to the teeth. If things get really bad, in addition to the scapegoats mawnck mentioned, add in the fact that, hey, a black man will be President so talk about an easy target to blame. Some are already doing so, despite the fact that he's been in office 6 weeks and the problems we're seeing have been brewing for many years. Ever see Hotel Rwanda? The scariest thing about that movie is the way the unseen voices on the radio keep talking about the "cockroaches" (Tustis) and how they're to blame for everything. At first it's just bigoted talk. Then they start blaming. Then they say that the "cockroaches" must be eliminated, and that it's your patriotic duty to do so. And tens of thousands joined in the mass madness. Beware anyone who appeals to "patriotism" coupled with an appeal to bigotry towards a scapegoated group.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Pixie, I am so sorry for your experience. I know how upset, weird, derailed, discouraged, confused, and saddened that sort of conversation can make you feel. I had almost exactly that same experience at a party earlier this winter. It was a wonderful, laid-back, standing-around-the-kitchen gathering of about twelve or fourteen years-long friends. Lots of laughter and hugs and sincere "It's so good to all be together again!" Long shared history of going boating together, euchre tournaments, trick-or-treating, summer barbeques, birthday parties, etc. We all knew that the "liberals" were in the vast minority there -- and that was fine with all of us. We see each other as people first, and we all have sincere affection toward each other. Heck. It's a redneck area of Michigan, but the other guys there hug me and Mr. Bill like we're some kind of long-lost brothers. It's just about friends. People. But then... OMG. When discussing Obama's election, things started to get warm. Commendably, we collectively checked ourselves and made an explicit vow to discontinue talking about politics. But... Oops, we did it again. And... Laurie and I got into a very heated, very loud, very unpleasant interchange. After minutes and minutes of her spouting Limbaugh-think and me trying to respond rationally, she said that because I was a "liberal" I was obviously not open to the truth. I ended the conversation, which caused complete silence among everyone there. Laurie and I were well pissed off at each other. STEAMING pissed off. But... we're good friends. We have a personal history. Within about seven or eight minutes we were hugging and apologizing to each other and agreeing to disagree. Let's face it. She was COMPLETELY wrong on this issue. But she's such a good person, and such a great friend. It's like it is with my very good friends who are sincerely religious. We are so NOT in agreement over a very big issue. But... It's weird. I can't come up with a neat summary statement for it. But sometimes the connection you have with a person really does transcend the differences of opinion you have with them, no matter how large.
Originally Posted By Pixie Glitter Yes! I heartily agree with posts 21 and 22. And that is why I was so floored that people I consider friends could be so. . . . well, I said let's have the conversation without name calling, so I'll just stop at I was floored.
Originally Posted By Pixie Glitter I was writing post 25 while 23 and 24 were being posted. I agree with them as well. And Inspector, I especially agree with your sentiment that huge differences in philosophy don't make it impossible to be friends with people. I am by no means casting these people out of my life. I still love them. But I wanted to open up the issue here to get a feel for just how bad people think things are going to get in the near future. Thanks, too, for the words of empathy--it really was a very upsetting experience, and I appreciate your acknowledging that.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 I hear what you are saying Inspector and I've had my experiences also over the last year but it's getting harder and harder to look beyond for the sake of the connection. I'm feeling more like "I thought I knew these people?" How can I continue to over look this? And let everyone continue to think this mindset is ok? It feels like my world is getting smaller and smaller.
Originally Posted By RockyMtnMinnie I have several highly conservative friends. We have agreed to disagree and have still remained friends. Heck, I'd have to disown my parents if I couldn't get along with people with differing philosophies. I cringe whenever I hear them mutter the word Socialism, but that is the worst of it. Now, many of them own guns, but I have yet to hear them shouting for a call to arms. Quite the opposite. I consider them responsible people (though wrong =P) and would not want their right to have their guns taken away. We have even joked about how I was driven insane for the past 8 years, so now it's their turn. Talking of arming yourself against your neighbor is pretty scary.
Originally Posted By Pixie Glitter I think there's a big difference between agreeing to disagree about some things with good friends and letting them think you condone it or think that mindset is okay. I was very clear in expressing my different views Friday night. And the friendship has certainly been altered (in my mind and heart) by the conversation. But at this point I think I can still maintain a casual friendship--probably not the level it was before, but still a friendship. Whew, we could actually have several threads going on all these related issues!
Originally Posted By Lisann22 That's kind of what I'm trying to honestly state. I see myself and them gradually drifting apart due to these conversations. Yes I have lots of people in my life that I think differently than. I'm not saying I disown them but our quality time together has greatly diminished.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I hear what you are saying Inspector and I've had my experiences also over the last year but it's getting harder and harder to look beyond for the sake of the connection. I'm feeling more like "I thought I knew these people?" How can I continue to over look this? And let everyone continue to think this mindset is ok?>> I hear you, Lisann. It's hard to know where to "draw the line," isn't it? With the group of friends I mentioned above, my strategy has been to infiltrate, ingratiate, and educate. The Mark-vs-Laurie screaming match was an unusual happening. Usually when we discuss this stuff, it's more level-headed, and I feel as though I affect their thinking. I keep in mind, too, that sometimes you have an influence that never gets recognized. You never get feed-back. Yet it turns out that you planted a seed, you caused someone to question. Like I said, I don't have a summary statement on this. I don't know where you draw the line. Do you accept them and try to influence them, or do you (finally) say, "Ewww!" and cut them loose? I don't know.
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer All I can say is socialism sure doesn't work. Look at the mess were in, one of the few G8 countries with just over a 6% decline in GDP (Compared to say Japan with over double that), stable banks, with the exception of therapy (thanks to our Liberal Premier Dalton) and dental care still being taken care of. Not that we had the highest GDP to begin with. I'm just waiting for all the guns to go off with all the socialism around these parts. Heck we can't even buy beer at the corner store or grocery store!
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<The US of A has the makings of its very own Nazi-like party... If we do need guns, it's going to be because of rampaging mobs of wingnuts...]>> Thank you for posting that, mawnck. I agree, SOMEone had to mention it. A comparison of Hitler's propoganda presence in his country's difficult time to the propaganda presence of Limbaugh/Hannity in our country's difficult time is absolutely frightening. To see how many Americans blindly swallow the hate, prejudice, and misinformation that Limbaugh and his ilk spew is completely demoralizing. If Rush's Arbitron ratings suddenly dropped, would he say that it's time to reinstate the gas chambers for gays?
Originally Posted By pecos bill There are people out there who want to see a meltdown, and cant wait for it to happen. Assault rifles have virtually vanished from the sporting stores, and ammo is getting very scarce. I must admit that modern society has made us almost totally dependent on others for our basic needs, and one major disruption in the chain of supply could be dire. Money has become nothing more than information on a computer, mostly based on the hope that the economy will continue growing. I know a lot of people who are not working, and when their unemployment runs out, along with many millions of others, what then? There are also about three billion more people on the planet now as there were during the depression. It may seem unthinkable, but far stranger things have happened in history. I honestly dont envision a worst case scenario, but at the same time, perhaps we are getting to the point where people should start taking things a bit more seriously. I dont see guns contributing to anything but total chaos in such an extreme situation, especially in an urban area, the exception being if one were in a position to actually hunt game,(or cows) for subsistence.
Originally Posted By avro_imagineer I hear LadyKluck's husband endorses Soylent Green, it provides sustenance
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Meaning no offense, Pixie, to people you care about, but I am afraid that what we have here is the latest example of sore losing. Many who latch onto right wing radio for their view of the world, they had no clue how out of touch those views were with the majority of the voters. So, it came as quite a shock to many of them that Obama won the election. So, in their minds, that is one of the signs that the end is near. In their minds, only mass insanity and a world gone mad could explain how a "socialist" like Obama could win. What they don't see is that it is actually a peaceful rejection of the war hawk right's grip on power in this country over the last 8 years. It is actually people looking for that kinder, gentler nation Bush the elder promised. I'm not trying to paint the current economic crisis as some minor inconvenience. It goes from worse to worser seemingly every day. But a lot of this idea that crime is going to run rampant and we're entering a time of anarchy is a lot of essentially wishful thinking by people who are far right zealots. Their bloated savior Limbaugh barfs out hateful stuff day after day, and they absorb it, nodding like good little dittoheads.
Originally Posted By Pixie Glitter Absolutely no offense taken, 2oony. I hadn't thought about the perspective you gave above. I certainly hope that's at least part (maybe a lot?) of the explanation for why people are spouting such alarmist stuff.
Originally Posted By LadyKluck LOL! I really need to stop posting from my cell phone is all I have to say in my defense!!
