Originally Posted By alexbook >>I really don't beleive it was disrupting anyone else but that lady but then again I really don't know.<< It was. For every person who'll step in in a situation like that, there are probably half a dozen in the immediate vicinity standing there debating whether to get involved. I was on HM recently with a little girl who was terrified of the stretching room and a dad who was unsympathetic. As many of you know, I am almost pathologically shy, but even I was debating getting involved. Fortunately, a CM stepped in and dealt with it. ----- Also, I know that some of you have expressed gratitude to parents for "forcing" you to go ahead and do stuff you were scared of. I don't want to invalidate your experiences, but I'm here to tell you that not every kid comes out of that kind of situation unscarred.
Originally Posted By Clotho Also, I know that some of you have expressed gratitude to parents for "forcing" you to go ahead and do stuff you were scared of. I don't want to invalidate your experiences, but I'm here to tell you that not every kid comes out of that kind of situation unscarred." I agrew with this statement. Some of the comments "I try and make my kids face their fears" kind of bug me (sorry, but they do!) Amusement park rides are NOT therapy. They are meant to be fun, from beginning to end. Using it as some tool to root out their deepest phobias just isn't right in my mind. I luckily had grandparents (who took us to Disney and Knotts every year) who were very understanding of my fears. I never had to have a crying fit, because if I said I didn't want to go, I didn't have to go. Period. They would of course try to talk to me about it and figure out what I was afraid of and try to reason with me, but if I was looking at the ride and was fearful, they didn't even make me get in line. When I was about 7 or 8 years old, I decided FOR MYSELF that I was ready to try some of the big coasters I had been afraid of (at the time, this meant things like Montezuma's Revenge), and I was HOOKED! My brother and I went on that ride 12 times in a row before my grandparents dragged us away to try another ride. LOL I remember a feeling of empowerment, very distinctly, looking back on that memory of that day. I have no memories of crying and begging and feeling scared and/or embarrassed, because I was never put through that. I agree that most parents know what is a real refusal and what isn't. But I have seen so many examples of parents who belittled their child for feeling scared that I have a somewhat visceral reaction to a child crying and a parent trying to convince them to ride despite their fears. Not enough to intervene, but enough to feel a little sick in the pit of my stomach when I see it... I feel like the OP did the right thing, to be clear. I also feel it was okay for the woman in line to say something if she was concerned over the situation (I feel our society sits back too often when they should speak up/get involved), but should have left it alone after that and not made such a huge scene as it sounds like it turned out to be. That's my take!
Originally Posted By knoxvelour OK, here's a little story that goes with this topic... I was about 11 and visiting my dad out in Ohio. Summer was at an end and I had to get back to So Cal to start school. Rather than fly me back, he decided to take his girlfriend and her 7-year-old son and drive, as neither had ever been to California. During the trip, we stopped at the usual tourist locations, one of which being Graceland (this factors in later). We got to Cali and we all went to Disneyland. We get to the Haunted Mansion and he was afraid to go in. He was throwing a fit about how it was going to be scary. Having been on the ride before and knowing the kid, I knew it wasn't anything he couldn't handle. I then managed to convince him that the Haunted Mansion was on the other side of the park and what we were in line for was really Walt Disney's house that you tour through. Like Graceland. He fell for it, but once in the stretching room and the lights went out, he had a fit. During the wait for our doom buggy I assured him it's a little scary at first, but nothing is going to hurt him and it gets really fun at the end. He was suspicous at first, especially after my little ruse to ge him in there to begin with. At the end of the ride he was ecstatic and was thanking me for talking him into going on it. Moral of the story...you're going to continue to be afraid of the unknown unless you confront that fear.
Originally Posted By stampinshock The only thing that I would ever say to another parent who is in a stressful situation (along with my sympathatic, I've been there, smile!) is to really hype up the ride and how fun it is or how my kids loved the ride. If it is something that I truely could not ignore then I would tell a cm and let them take care of the problem. I'm sorry, in advance, for saying such harsh and politically incorrect things here, but if you don't give birth to my child or at least helped my child come into exsistance with your DNA, then you may not EVER tell me how to parent my child. And let us not forget, disipline and parenting styles are subjective, humiliating a parent so you can be a hero in their child's eye will not help any situation or anyone. Imo, it really sounds like the "lady" was not in the best of moods and vented out her frustrations on your wife.
Originally Posted By lasvegasgirl stampinshock............ I AGREE........... MY KID, MY DECISION........ good point made !!!
Originally Posted By mainstfan5 While I agree that the woman handled the situation poorly, I will give her credit for at least caring about the child. She stepped in and put herself at risk to defend the little boy. Kudos to her for that, and even if her language was a bit rude I don't think she deserves to be called some of the names that are being used here. >>Some of the comments "I try and make my kids face their fears" kind of bug me (sorry, but they do!) Amusement park rides are NOT therapy. They are meant to be fun, from beginning to end. Using it as some tool to root out their deepest phobias just isn't right in my mind.<< I agree completely. >>I then managed to convince him that the Haunted Mansion was on the other side of the park and what we were in line for was really Walt Disney's house that you tour through. Like Graceland. He fell for it, but once in the stretching room and the lights went out, he had a fit.<< That's good, teach your child that it's OK to lie and manipulate people so they will do what YOU want. Don't you think the child will be less likely to trust you in the future? Is an amusement park ride worth that?
Originally Posted By mainstfan5 ^^^^^^^^^^^ knoxvelour -- Rereading my post, I have to apologize. I meant my comment as an expression of concern; it came out as a smart-aleck insult. Sorry about that. I am concerned about the lesson that the child may learn from your story, though.
Originally Posted By knoxvelour <<That's good, teach your child that it's OK to lie and manipulate people so they will do what YOU want. Don't you think the child will be less likely to trust you in the future? Is an amusement park ride worth that?>> Well it wasn't MY child. It was the son of my dad's girlfriend and I thought of him as a younger brother. I admit to using an underhanded tactic, but I knew the kid and I knew he'd enjoy it. He was just being difficult at the time. I didn't think you were being harsh at all. This is a discussion board and there really isn't much discussion going on if everyone agreed with each other
Originally Posted By Clotho "Moral of the story...you're going to continue to be afraid of the unknown unless you confront that fear." I somewhat agree with this, to the extent that you should be able to CHOOSE for YOURSELF when and where and how you confront it. You should not be unduly coerced (emphasis on unduly) or manipulated into it. As my story illustrates, I chose the time of my crossing that barrier, and I remember it as a triumph I alone am responsible for. I relish that emotional memory. Would it have been the same if two years earlier my grandfather had dragged me on, kicking and screaming, or at the very least lying and cajoling...and for what? Just so I would ride it two years earlier than I did? So it would be on his terms and *his* triumph that he "convinced" me to go? I don't belive so... Let it be that child's choice. Their moment of empowerment will come. Let it be on their own time.
Originally Posted By skywilliams You know, as a parent you need to help your children face their fears. I understand what some of you are saying that it's a ride and it is cruel to help your kids overcome their preconceptions of some of the rides at the park. Now I am not saying that just because they reach the height limit then they go on it whether they like it or not. As their parent you need to gauge how they are reacting to the prospect of going on the ride. I'm sorry but I am not going to let sit out of POTC because my kid fears of going down a small waterfall. I am going to show my kids there is nothing to fear from these rides and because of that they will be rewarded with a great experience. And who is even saying that having a child ride something he is scared of is therapy? Is taking the training wheels off of their bike therapy? Is making them go to school the first day therapy? No, it is a new experience waiting to be had with a rewarding experience that they were scared of doing because it was a new thing for them. And when they do it and realize it was not scary like they thought they are filled with a sense of accomplishment. Again, it all boils down to the judgment of the parent in determining if the child is ready to tackle the scarier rides. You should not drag a child kicking and screaming onto a ride because they will not allow themselves to see that there is nothing to be scared of and it does ruin the experience for everyone else. But a little trepidation or in my kids case they do whine and can whip up some tears. Does this mean they are terrified? Sometimes, but a majority of the time it’s not. And as the parents, my wife and I can tell the difference. But before I take them on anything new I explain what the ride is all about, show them videos of it if I have them, and I make sure they do agree they want to do it before hand. But then when they are standing outside the real thing or in the line they are going to have those second thoughts and that is when I step in to reassure them it will be a lot of fun and there is nothing to fear. And as for ToT he had been on it before by his own choice and loved it. This trip he was frightened by the boiler room queue, not the ride. My main point is that the lady who verbally attacked my wife was not concerned for my child. All she was concerned with telling my wife how irritated she was. Now, I am not judging her because who knows what was happening in her life up to that point, and hearing a kid saying he was scared (which may not have normally bugged her) may just have been the straw that broke the camels back. Who knows, but if she just had to say something and was really concerned about my kid there was a better, more adult way of handling it. That is all I am saying.
Originally Posted By ploeb909 Twinglemum, I dont think at anytime anyone said any thing about this lady forceing her child to do anything. And as far as this other woman being truely concerned, I doubt it, otherwise she probbly would have not gotton beligerent in front of the child. While I undersatnd these things can put a damper on others trips, well they are at DisneyLand. Heck, you can go to the mall or the grocery store and see an upset child. No big, turn away, go down another isle, or get out of line and wait till the next car. Either way its that mothers call.
Originally Posted By Socrates All this reminds me of my neighbor's daughter. She was always afraid of thrill rides. And my neighbor would never force her on anything -- it was always her decision. Now as a fifteen-year-old she loves them. Why? Two summers ago her best girlfriend took her to a Six Flags park and talked her into trying one. So I would say she worked it out on her own. Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By Beast77 You know, this thread reminds me of something I think about quite a bit. I think that we live in a society where we are giving kids way too much power. Unless the situation is TRULY abusive, children should not have the power to say no to their parents. Parents should not have to fear rebuke because of their choices on how to parent their children. I work at a university, and my wife at an elementery school and we can see the changes in the kids ever since this trend of empowered kids, never spank your child, let your child make their own choices caught on. Ever since this trend, things have really gone down hill. While there are many examples of kids who were 100% empowered and turned out great, there is a distinct shift in the majority of children/young adults in classrooms. Where you used to get one or two class clowns that would mouth off to the teacher, now you have over half the class that will not only mouth off, but will flip off, threaten to harm, or otherwise display very disruptive behavior. In the doorms at my school we have noticed the problem too. 10-15 years ago, Freshman moved in and showed respect for the R.A.s (Resident Advisors), rules were obeyed and problems could be handled with a one-on-one between the resident and the R.A. These days, we require police to escort the R.A. because of the high incidence of assaults as well as the esculation in the severity of rule breaking. Where problems used to be loud music, occasional beer, and simple fights are now parties that consume whole floors, hard drugs, and assults/rapes with weapons involved. Last year, our Freshman class of 5000, had over 1200 arrests for "minor in posession". We have had consultants, psychologists,and alums form a panel to figure out what the heck is going on and the biggest thing they have found is an attitude amoung the incomming students that noone has the right to tell them what they can or cant do. Many have not had curfews since they were 8 or 9 years old, or had some form of veto power over their parents dicisions. We just hand kids power that they never have to earn or learn to appreciate. They end up not understanding authority or the need to respecct authority. So, it does all come down to situations like that of the OP. A parent made a choice for the child. The child did not like the choice, so someone else got involved. If anything, the lady caused moe damage because she demonstrated to the child that if he does not want to do something that his mom is telling him to do, just raise a fuss and other adults will come to his aid. I think that parents need to be allowed to parent without being judged and without involvement of others unless there are CLEAR signs of abuse. I also think that people need to get real on how we define abuse, because that too has gotten out of hand and become a buzzword that people love to throw around to make themselves feel important and well adjusted. Bottom line is this: Parents should be the ultimate authority when a child is young. Their decisions should be respected like it or not. If a child chooses to fight a parent on an issue, outsiders should not get involved, as every time one does, it slightly effects the childs understanding of the decision making power of the parent. Sorry about the long post. I have dealt with a situation like this not too long ago, so this stuff really gets me going.
Originally Posted By mele Well my daughter is a lot more timid than I have ever been. I truly don't understand how she views the world. In things that don't matter much, like amusement park rides, I am not going to pull rank and insist that she go on something that terrifies her. My 8 year old daughter is TERRIFIED by E.T. When I was a year older than her, that was my favorite movie. I was obsessed with it. I just don't understand why he scares her. A couple of years ago we watched the movie "Space Balls". Remember the scene in the diner where the monster jumps out of the guy's stomach? It is a spoof of the movie Alien? My daughter FREAKED out when she saw that. She is STILL terrified of it and occasionally remembers it and gets upset. Neither of these things makes any sense to me. I never would have exposed her to those things if I thought they would have frightened her so badly for years to come. I didn't know I was scaring her...why would I chose to do it further? I've learned that I need to trust her judgment more because I clearly don't know what will upset her sometimes. Keep in mind, her fears haven't lessened over time and in the case of E.T., they've gotten worse. She sometimes gets upset just seeing the dvd in our dvd folder. What this all boils down to is that most often we know our own children best. skywilliams' wife knew her son would have fun once the ride started. She made the right decision to bring him on. I think the woman who confronted her was trying to help but went about it the wrong way and definitely took it way too far when she called the CM over. There is no right answer here. The parents ultimately have the right to decide whether their children should go on the ride or not. Sometimes it's the right decision, sometimes it's the wrong decision. It's just one of those things that makes parenting so difficult. You can't do it correctly 100% of the time. Even if you don't make the same mistakes your parents did, you usually end up making a few different ones. That's what makes it so rewarding. ;-)
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>You know, as a parent you need to help your children face their fears. I understand what some of you are saying that it's a ride and it is cruel to help your kids overcome their preconceptions of some of the rides at the park.<<< You're a wise parent, and your children will grow up capable of dealing with life. Too many adults today were coddled as children and protected from "dangers" that they perceived to be dangerous, but in truth, were not. Permitting a child to wallow in false perception is tantamount to lying to the child, and this does a disservice as a parent. Your kids are going to be fine, and you and your wife are doing a great job. You know your kids and their threshhold. Nothing of this sounds extreme, and obviously, there was no trauma. Well done.
Originally Posted By Momtoo2 Beast77 You hit the nail on the head! My DD is 10yo and in a nice public elementary and I am constantly shocked at how the parents consistently choose their childs side over the teachers in every instance. We have had several children who have had roblems with the teacher and other students every year since first grade and the parents always blame the teacher not their child for the bad behaviour or lack of respect in their CHILD. I just had a conversation yesterday with a mother who wants her children to go to Sunday school but the kids don't like to go to church and sunday school because it takes too long...so they don't make them go. My children don't have the choice. Am I making a mistake...I don't know but I do know I am the PARENT..if there are no boundries or rules then you have anarchy and I quake in my bots as to what this world will be like when we have a nation full of people who think they are above the rules and that everything is for them and about them and forget everyone else. Ok off my soap box...lol
Originally Posted By lasvegasgirl Beast77........... that was put VERY well !!! I agree... kids have WAAAYYYY too much power now a days... that is why we see the out of control problems that some parents have. I enjoyed reading your post. Nice job !!!
Originally Posted By danyoung I'm glad this thread brought up Storybookland a couple of times, as it was the home to a sad incident. A mom, her mom, and a 3 year old girl were about to get into the boat that I was already seated in. Girl got spooked and didn't want to get on, and was screaming at the top of her lungs. So grandma grabs her and plunks her into the boat. Well, now the screams have gone hypersonic, and the entire boat is miserable. She just starts to calm down when this idiot grandma says "Look, honey", and points to the fact that we're going into Monstro's mouth. Back to the screaming again. This poor little girl never did settle down, and the entire ride was blown for the whole boat. (I'm not saying that this is what happened with the OP, just telling my tale.) My opinion on the original incident - if the ruckus from the young one was great enough to start to disturb those around him, then it was time to bail out and maybe wait for the next car while calming the child down. But the other lady had absolutely no right to interfere, other than maybe a helpful comment, which is not what she did. And while I agree with the post about our children being too empowered, I also believe that too many parents don't take their children's feelings into account when making decisions. I really hate the concept of dragging a child onto a ride, for whatever reason. Only you know your own child and how he'll react. But the queue of a Disney attraction doesn't seem to be the right place to force an issue, IMO.
