Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And back then, they had all sorts of entertainment, dancing, grown up stuff to do at night." In October?
Originally Posted By SleepingBeauty82 <<<It's funny that we're having this discussion about crowd control at... DCA. Who'd a thunk it?>>> It is pretty amazing. Thanks for allowing me my rant, folks. I know the comments weren't directed at me but sometimes it's like "Everyone here hates me because I'm a local and I crowd the park. Dang." Believe it or not, I do agree that the crowds would be a lot more manageable and the parks would be more fun if the AP program did not exist but as a local who loves Disneyland, I would be stupid not to take advantage of it. I do HATE the "Pay per month" deal they have with the passes now. It encourages more crowds and I wonder how many of those people end up not being able to pay...
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Believe it or not, I do agree that the crowds would be a lot more manageable and the parks would be more fun if the AP program did not exist but as a local who loves Disneyland, I would be stupid not to take advantage of it. Of course. If I were The King of Disneyland I'd advocate putting more systems in place (raise prices, more black out dates, black out entry times, etc) to control crowding. Can the paths around the Hub be widened? Is it possible to build additional walkways behind Main Street? If Disney is going to sell nearly a million annual passes they ought to be prepared to handle these people when they show up without sacrificing guest enjoyment.
Originally Posted By SleepingBeauty82 ^^^I've thought the same thing for a while, Hans. I was saying to my fiance when we were there Saturday that you can really tell that DCA was built to withstand and work with crowds and Disneyland wasn't. It just was not built to handle the amount of people it holds. They do need more walkways and paths and route to different places. I love that DCA has wide walkways and in most spots, you don't feel like you're walking in a herd of cattle.
Originally Posted By dl1956 Guess ol' corporate greed isn't the only reason Disney keeps raising prices.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>"The current plan is to make World of Color the first ticketed nighttime spectacular in Disney theme park history." Well, Al doesn't quite seem to have his facts straight on this one... They use a similar system... in Tokyo Disneyland for their big shows...<< There is a precednt in Disneyland, too. For a couple of years, Candlelight was moved to the Fantasyland Theater. There was a free ticket distribution every morning, which led to a massive dash down Main Street following rope drop. So much of the angst over WOC crowds is very reminiscent of the endless discussion that preceded the opening of Finding Nemo: Submarine Voyage. I seem to recall absolute assurances that the general public would be shut out of this offering for at least three years, shoved aside by entitled APs who knew how to game the system...
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Which might have actually happened, had Nemo Subs lived up to its original hype. As it is, the ride isn't repeatable and not worth but a short wait in line. If Nemo Subs were in the same league as Pirates or Mansion, then those long queues seen during the first few months would have continued beyond the first year. I believe WoC will exceed its expectations and blow away Fantasmic. The crowd control issues will not be easily solved, and yes, experienced APs will know exactly how to "game the system" before the first month of performances have been completed. There will either be camping out at the lagoon's edge for the show, or camping out at the main gate before opening, quickly followed by a mad dash to show pass distribution. Either way, casual tourists out of the info loop will be left in the dust.
Originally Posted By SleepingBeauty82 <<casual tourists out of the info loop will be left in the dust.>> I'm thinking LP should publish a book with all our tips to keep people in the loop. Maybe casual tourists would have better experiences if they had a few tricks in mind. We took some tourists to the park a couple weeks ago and because we visit the park so often, we were able to make the most of their one day there and they did everything they wanted to do and saw everything they wanted to see and the longest line we waited in was 25 minutes.
Originally Posted By BigJim89 <<What to do about this problem, especially from May to August when the late setting sun won’t allow but one show per night on many evenings?>> One show per night? I thought the idea behind WoC was to expand park hours. Extend hours to 11 or even 10 and you could easily fit at least two shows even in the summer especially if they in fact move DEP. Otherwise showpass sounds like a good idea, I just can't believe there are no plans to extend park hours next spring/summer.
Originally Posted By gadzuux f>> ... very reminiscent of the endless discussion that preceded the opening of Finding Nemo << One important distinction is that there's no real system to be gamed with nemo. It has no fastpass and therefore no strategy - you just have to suck it up and get in line, the old fashioned way. Apparently that's not even going to be an option for WOC. If you didn't have your ducks in a row early on in the day, you're outta luck. I agree with 'skinner' that the reviews and wow factor of WOC is all but certain to make it a "must see" attraction, especially during it's first several months. AND - I agree with DLDug' that there are similarities between WOC and the 'nemo' capacity debates - namely that daily attendance may range anywhere from 30k to 70+k, but only a small fraction of those people will be able to see the newest whiz-bang thing. Almost everybody "wants" to see it, and almost everybody won't. The people that will are the people who know the tricks, and have the free time to devote to this all-day task. And I'd be willing to bet money that several hundred of them will be there nearly every day.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan It is likely there will be that huge crush to be among the "first" to see WOC. But after those first couple months, and after that initially excitement and curosity has been satisfied, I think things settle down to a more normal pattern (just like Nemo). What might be more likely, especially with 2 shows, are large numbers of folks park-hopping at night between performances of WOC and Fantasmic. Who knows, maybe if this is a huge hit show, perhaps APs will be one or two park passes as originally planned way back in 2000 prior to DCA opening.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "Between that, this being the 'first ever' reserved ticket for a nighttime show, saying that the show will open at the end of April, and his obsession with the new president, his fact checking/credibility just doesn't quite seem to be up to par these days." What does ANYBODY'S feelings about Obama have to do with this? Very strange comment.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "I agree. The idea that full price ticket-holders are at the mercy of 850,000 APers seems innately unfair. And bad business for DLR. In any business, your premium priced customer should get a greater value than the bargain hunters." Indeed. And in THIS case, hopefully, those full(or close to full)paying daily ticket purchases may actually be at a disadvantage. For example: You're Kevin and Winona from Montana, visiting for a couple of days on a West Coast vacation. You arrive at park opening from your hotel on property. You get the four showpasses for yourselves and the two kids and then get to tour around, as per usual. You get to the seats about half an hour before show time and you get to enjoy the show. Now reverse that for an AP holder. You decide, on a whim to drop into the resort at 6:00pm after work. DL is, after all YOUR personal after work drop in place so OF COURSE you're entitled! You sidle on up to a show pass machine but..........wait a minute - what's THIS?!?!?! All the show passes are gone?!?!?!!? You mean you're going to have to come back AGAIN TOMORROW AND TRY?!?!?!!? Life's SO unfair, isn't it? Yes, the day visitor SHOULD be given precedence, since their full paying ticket costs MORE. Hopefully this will bear out.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "What does ANYBODY'S feelings about Obama have to do with this?" I was referring to the new president of the Disneyland Resort, not the newish President of the US. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. If you read Al's colum from yesterday, you'll see that he is a huge fan, while every other blog-type article I've read about him is quite skeptical, to say the least. I honestly have no idea which way Al swings politically, nor do I care. : )
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "I do HATE the "Pay per month" deal they have with the passes now. It encourages more crowds" SB - that is just another form of bigotry and is actually "classist". You seem like a nice person so I don't mean this personally but I object to you saying, "I should be allowed to have an AP because I can afford to pay in a yearly lump sum, whereas somebody on a monthly payment plan should not be allowed to have one". Why is it THAT segment of the "crowd" is something you object to, yet you get upset with others here objecting to the crowd control problem caused by APers in general? Maybe it's time for a re-vamping of the entire AP system. Maybe opposite day APs(some people allowed in only every other day), APs that work for only HALF the year or a MASSIVE price increase(since the almost ONE MILLION locals have proven they can afford - hell, Disney is being fiscally irresponsible by NOT charging more, since the market HAS shown they WILL pay it!). Hell, I'd support THAT if Disney said the extra charges were going to fund a couple more Indy-sized Es for DL!!!
Originally Posted By SleepingBeauty82 <<<Why is it THAT segment of the "crowd" is something you object to, yet you get upset with others here objecting to the crowd control problem caused by APers in general?>>> No offense taken Bob. I realize my statement is classist in a sense but there was really no other way to say it. The topic of conversation was: how can we reduce the crowds in the park. The finger was being pointed at the sheer number of AP holders clogging up the park nightly. I guess my point was that the pay-per-month option added to an already developing problem by allowing a whole other group of people access to APs. One way of fixing the problem? Get rid of that option! Or even maybe allow the option for the more expensive passes (Premium and Deluxe) and not the SoCal passes? Since it's already established in other topics that the SoCal passes are the cause of a lot of the crowding.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hmmm, how about guarenteed places for Disney hotel guests and one day tickets, the rest on a lottery. Seems fair.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But if you guys toweled back, I did forecast a rise in crowds at DL when they allowed pay monthly, which I felt would be a bad idea.
Originally Posted By Mickeysbestfan ++Hmmm, how about guarenteed places for Disney hotel guests and one day tickets, the rest on a lottery. Seems fair.++ So if you can't afford or choose not to afford the Disney hotels but still buy a multiday ticket, you should be treated as a less than those who can?
