Originally Posted By avromark ^^ The sad thing is even if they did they wouldn't buy it. Corporate America's corporate culture is twisted and they truly believe the sputum they're putting out. Of course stockholders demanding more back aren't helping it. The core issue however is once you milk the middle class, the pickings for more profits get thinner. It's either the small elite or taking money from the every growing under incomed crowd. Money can only come from so many places, credit can only go so far. And there is only X # of consumers available, some of which will never buy into your product even if you have the means. Do you think David Suzuki (hometown proud!) would buy a Suburban/Armada? He can afford it. There are people with families who put the priority on their family. There are those who just don't like Disney. There are those who like Disney's movies/tv but would rather go to Eilat or Brisbane or something.
Originally Posted By bayrr326 Well, they must be getting desperate with the recent sale that started Dec. 13 on in park merchandise. 50% off most Christmas merchandise, 40% off most hats and t-shirts. They are even offering 20% off shirts at the Character Premiere outlets when I was in there last weekend. I don't think I have every heard of discounts like this before. But the Spirit is right, the Execs are starting to scrape bone when it comes to cutbacks. I have alot of friends who work for Disney, including one Imagineer who was recently laid off, and some are not sure they will still have a job after to first of the year.
Originally Posted By avromark They're cutting the people who will help the company, the first people who should be cut however are usually the people who have the authority to cut. How about not taking a bonus or even a salary cut for the team?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Yea, I know. Everyone hates DVC. But right now DVC is the best thing WDW has going for it. In this time when people are holding on to every last dollar, when they are canceling vacations left and right; they've got a boatload of people who will still visit WDW because: 1) Their lodging was paid for years ago... now all they have to buy is transportation and tickets. 2) They are paying the same $200 per month on the Disney DVC mortgage whether they use it or not. They might as well pay the extra for transportation and tickets and use their lodging. Will Disney be selling much DVC right now? Probably not. But you know something? I bet Disney doesn't really care. I bet they are just darned happy they sold as much of it in the past as they did. Because do you know what you call those people? Yes, you call them DVC'ers. You also call them the best customers WDW has for 2009.
Originally Posted By avromark I call them Chris amungst other things. You pretty much summed up why I never will buy time share. I don't want to be locked in to anything. Most of my trips I'm ashamed to say are planned the week before I leave if that.
Originally Posted By Disney and beyond I'm a DVCer. At least, My parents are. And you know what? Its helping me get to Disney in a time when I normally could not. OK, so its the three day ESPN weekend trip, but still, its I trip I couldn't do with the DVC. That doesn't mean that I'm for them building new hotel rooms. They've got too many already.
Originally Posted By leobloom Speaking of discounts, I hear the annual CM 20% discount on merchandise that typically lasts 2 weeks in December has been extended until February. Sounds like the D in WDW stands for "desperate"...
Originally Posted By kennect The really sad part of this is the idea if the MK and other park properties had been regularly maintained and updated previously none of this would be huge news at this time....The MK has been neglected for so long it makes all of this current cutback news really bite the big one...Had they been doing the job they should have been doing over the last fifteen years or so the MK wouldn't look so sad today...But I have to give them some props...I am still amazed that the HM got the major overhaul it did...Sad that some other things didn't....
Originally Posted By -em ^ Close... Usually the discounts go from 20/35 to 40 between mid/end of Oct to Feb (with blackouts) This year its gone to 50% off at the parks (not resorts/DTD) which was going to be 2 weeks, then got extended till Dec now extended to feb Sad part- with my hours being slashed I cant afford Mart let alone Disney stuff...
Originally Posted By leobloom Thanks for the correction, -em. I also heard CM hours dropping, next to no overtime. With Disney's wages, I don't know how full-time CMs with less than 40 hrs a week are doing it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip How is ANYONE going to make it today? I'm pretty scared that I'm going to lose my shirt when we try to sell our Minnesota home. At least we will have our retirement home and will have a guaranteed retirement income. We just won’t have the nest egg we counted on. I've always tried to be optimistic, and I still do. But the doom and gloomers have won. They have everyone totally scared of spending anything and put us in a downward spiral that doesn't seem to end. Nothing like self-fulfilling prophecies, huh?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Writing a letter will do nothing.>> I'm not so sure of that. If they had full occupancy, sure your letter would end up in the circular file. But during bads times letters matter a lot. Trust me, they are scared. Tens of thousands of empty hotel rooms, and they want so desperately to fill them. Let them know why the rooms are empty.
Originally Posted By -em >>I don't know how full-time CMs with less than 40 hrs a week are doing it.<< We've been on 32 for the month and who knows when we'll go back to 40 (or can I dream- 40+ overtime- I used to work 48-60 hr weeks to break even...)
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<1) Their lodging was paid for years ago... now all they have to buy is transportation and tickets.>> This is called cannibalizing future sales. And you forgot the overpriced food. <<You also call them the best customers WDW has for 2009.>> Best? They were sold future lodging at a stiff discount. Cannibalizing future sales props up income in the near term, at the expense of the long term. <<The really sad part of this is the idea if the MK and other park properties had been regularly maintained and updated previously none of this would be huge news at this time>> Again, parallels with the big 3 come to mind. Neglect the product and you will have to resort to gimmicks to move it. And worst of all, your customers will come to expect rebates and discounts. Who buys a Chevy without a big fat discount these days?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<How is ANYONE going to make it today? I'm pretty scared that I'm going to lose my shirt when we try to sell our Minnesota home.>> Wait a minute. You said that "it was different" in your neck of the woods. Has something changed?
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<We've been on 32 for the month and who knows when we'll go back to 40 (or can I dream- 40+ overtime- I used to work 48-60 hr weeks to break even...)>> You are not alone. The median household income in my neck of the woods has dropped 10% since 2000, and if you factor in inflation (say 3% per year) it means that the median house hold out here has lost a WHOPPING 30% of their real income since 2000. This my friends is why cars, houses and other merchandise are not selling. The geniuses in the executive suite just can't seem to comprehend that the much worshipped "consumers" are also their underpaid employees. They have literally killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Some comments on the comments. First, I agree with Trippy (to a large degree anyway) about DVCers being Disney's best WDW guests in 2009. I really think that will be true. Unfortunately, I doubt they'll have those 'Welcome Home'/Amway meetings with DVCers bitching to Dijuan Rivers (who rest assured wouldn't be caught dead at one these days) they didn't spend XXX thousands of dollars and tie themselves to the Mouse to watch the quality slip away ... that's a dream of mine, but don't see it happening. To Leo, feel free to hijack any of my threads when you add in such great/current feeback. Much of the WalMarting you noticed was there when I was at the World in mid-late October. That angler fish in Nemo will likely never work again, worse neither probably will the Yeti, and worse yet no one in any position of power gives a &*%# ... saw many overflowing trash cans and actually in front of Mansion, so clearly they have custodial issues at MK (no surprise). ... all of the breakdowns you got were likely the result of neglect as preventative maintainance is largely a thing of the past (think Paul Pressler's infamous 1997 'we need to ride these to their breaking points' comment ... just before people started getting killed and injured regularly at DL!) I agree with fkurucz that writing letters can't hurt. It really beats just not showing up because that hurts you and your family and Disney never even misses you. To em (and all the CMs out there) you have my best wishes for better days and my advice to apply for any jobs that don't include pixie dust. Any employer that doesn't respect employees of the caliber of many WDW CMs doesn't deserve to have them. Finally I just want to point out that we are a small albeit vocal minority here, but Disney's exec 'leadership' (does everyone get why I place the quote marks around them? I'd hate if such sarcasm was missed by anyone at the holiday!)team is so ignorant of all of those non-Disney nut visitors. Those are the folks who if they go and see what Leo saw and experience what many of us have the past few years never come back ... so Disney may have screwed them out of a $5,000 vacation that was supposed to be magical, but was at best 'overrated' and they'll never come back ... and they'll never appear on Power Point either ...but they're the ones that DO notice the magic isn't quite what it's cracked up to be. And rest assured, in this economy no matter how many merchandise discounts you toss out, they're not going to be burning up the CRO phone lines.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Wait a minute. You said that "it was different" in your neck of the woods. Has something changed?>> We are fine now. I'm just not sure about 3 months from now. As I said, the doom and gloomers have won. They have effectively strangled consumer spending. What will it be like in three months? I don't know. I hope that people will be so happy with Obama as president that they will start spending again. I'm optimistic, but not an idiot. I can certainly recognize when the gloom and doomers have impacted the future, and can see that they now have. I hope they all burn in hell, but in the meantime the rest of us will have to put up with what they have done.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The really sad part of this is the idea if the MK and other park properties had been regularly maintained and updated previously none of this would be huge news at this time>> Exactly. But see the MK has been bled dry as the cash cow of the theme park chain ... so when things were great in 1999 or again in 2005, they still cutback while failing to add anything of substance. So you have a stale, tired shell of what was once a great park ... and the scary thing is more cuts are coming and nothing new is being added but some WHAT WILL YOU CELEBRATE? tacky decorations. <<Again, parallels with the big 3 come to mind. Neglect the product and you will have to resort to gimmicks to move it. And worst of all, your customers will come to expect rebates and discounts. Who buys a Chevy without a big fat discount these days?>> Our local Dodge dealer is offering a legit buy one new truck get one free deal. No, I won't be taking advantage.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You are not alone. The median household income in my neck of the woods has dropped 10% since 2000, and if you factor in inflation (say 3% per year) it means that the median house hold out here has lost a WHOPPING 30% of their real income since 2000. This my friends is why cars, houses and other merchandise are not selling. The geniuses in the executive suite just can't seem to comprehend that the much worshipped "consumers" are also their underpaid employees. They have literally killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.>> You haven't seen anything yet. I went to my local Starbucks for my $3.56 iced latte today. I'm down to one a week from 3-4 for most of the past 3-4 years. Couldn't help but notice the lineup of cars at the local McDonald's ... why? because in my very affluent community 49 cent hamburger/59 cent cheeseburger Sundays bring in folks who are splurging ... these are people who used to go and drop $200 or more on a weekend dinner just a year or two ago. Last night I was at the Town Center Mall in Boca Raton ... anyone who may not know, but Boca is also a VERY wealthy affluent community with a lot of old money. This mall (second to last Saturday before X-Mas) had loads of parking (sometimes on normal Saturdays you can't find a spot!) ... Sears was practically desserted (I assumed this was because everyone was in Nordstrom or Saks or Macy's) ... well, they weren't. The mall was moderately crowded, but no one was spending much. I helped the economy by dropping $100 at Macy's (on $324 worth of full price clothing!) Let me tell you what should be very obvious ... people don't have money and they don't have credit. Let me tell you something else ... come early 2009 Federated will announce the closing of at least 100 stores nationwide (part of the problem when you wind up being practically the only department store retailer in the country).
