Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We are fine now. I'm just not sure about 3 months from now. As I said, the doom and gloomers have won. They have effectively strangled consumer spending.>> Trippy, you are on another planet. The gloom and doomers as you put it have done nothing. People aren't spending because they don't have money or they don't have credit or they've lost their job (or afraid they will) or have lost their home (or afraid they will). It's just that simple. It would be great if everyone were so stupid that the talking heads on CNBC, CNN and FOX convinced them to just not spend. I'm barely spending now. It isn't because of any fear out there. It's because I'm not making enough money and I don't have enough credit. I'd love to spend more. Thinking of maybe a Christmas visit to Las Vegas because I can get a room in a 4-5 star hotel on the Strip for $80 and a rental car for a week for $100 (including all taxes and fees) ... but still not sure I can justify it. <<What will it be like in three months? I don't know. I hope that people will be so happy with Obama as president that they will start spending again.>> I doubt it. This was a disaster long in the making, but the collapse was swift and painful ... I don't see any Prez coming in and turning things around with the kind of mess he's being left. <<I'm optimistic, but not an idiot. I can certainly recognize when the gloom and doomers have impacted the future, and can see that they now have. I hope they all burn in hell, but in the meantime the rest of us will have to put up with what they have done.>> I'd rather see Disney's theme park execs burn myself ... but either way it's nice to be in the holiday spirit!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'm barely spending now. It isn't because of any fear out there. It's because I'm not making enough money and I don't have enough credit.>> I have more money and more credit than I've ever had. And I'm cutting back because I'm scared. That is gloom and doom and nothing else. According to my current income and credit I should be spending the same as I always have. But I don’t trust where the economy is gong any more because of the gloom and doomers. Does that mean that now I am a gloom and doomer too? Yes it does. I’ve been defeated by Mr. X.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Provided your money is safe -- really safe -- you should spend as much as you would normally. Why let others cause you to fear anything? you obviously have it better than most ... take advantage ... buy a new big screen TV, plan another WDW visit ... or how about a DCL cruise? I never let others tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my money ... but that's just me ... maybe if I had listened to them and not blown as much at WDW in the past, I'd be sitting pretty now too.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I live this world every day folks -- off shoring ,layoffs, expense cuts - having to let people I know go....it really sucks out there right now.<<< This is why I left the world of the service company in favour of advisory work, much more satisfying ;-) But agreed. Shuttering a resort because of capacity concerns, fine. Maybe even having dark days in rotation clearly publicised in advance - that's fine too. But shorter hours and no investment, well I think this could hurt them very much in the long run. You guys enjoy the swamps, I'll be at the other Disney resorts who kep their hours (and it seems our home park has a fairly bright future at the mo in PAris).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I mean seriously, what can we do? Are we going to send a torch and pitchfork mob? There is nothing we can do about this, so just enjoy what you have.<<< You could boycott WDW in favour of other destinations like the baloos are.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But I bet there are still some pixie dust folks out there who see nothing wrong at WDW. Well, I have spoken with 3 UKers who have recently been as well as a Disney cast member friend from another part of the world. All have vowed to never return due to the poor maintenance. That's very sad. It doesn't have to be like this. If they made WDW the epitome of family vacations, those with money would go, and those without may see it as still worth going to avoid the realities of life. But when those realities of the real world creep in to WDW, then we know it is not good. It is a pretty bad state of affairs when DLP is cleaner and better maintained than WDW.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I can certainly recognize when the gloom and doomers have impacted the future, and can see that they now have. I hope they all burn in hell, but in the meantime the rest of us will have to put up with what they have done.*** Very interesting that you have chosen as your boogyman "the gloom and doomers". Some might call such people "pragmatists" or "realists", but somehow you believe THOSE people have somehow CAUSED things to become terrible. Much like the wall street folks who blame those "reckless short-sellers" for taking down all the finest and largest institutions of the past hundred years somehow, only I'm not quite sure how it was done (if it were actually possible, why didn't it happen a LONG time ago?...that's my question). Always a boogyman to be found, I suppose, but I think it would make more sense to be angry at all those reckless companies and their leaders (and your government that stood by and let it occur with little to no regulation), rather than simply the folks that said "things look bad". But your way is convenient and easy, isn't it RoadTrip?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I went to my local Starbucks for my $3.56 iced latte today.*** What size was that? (just out of curiosity)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Does that mean that now I am a gloom and doomer too? Yes it does. I’ve been defeated by Mr. X.*** Oh, brother. I hadn't even read this when I composed post 47 (honest!)... Again with the Boogyman (now in personalized form staring yours truly). Why the heck would you allow whatever *I* might have to say to actually SCARE you? Can't you do your own research? Can't you evaluate the economy on its own merits without a commentator to tell you what's going on? You've written time and again about how my opinion is stupid, irrelevant, Un-American, and other words to that effect. So, somehow now my opinion is scaring you? Are you such an incredibly wishy washy person that you can't help but "go with the flow" and whoever is in your face and talking at the moment gets your attention? Get a backbone for pete's sake. If you think the economy is in good shape, say so and act confident. Don't "blame" others who are cautious, make up your OWN mind for once. Geez.
Originally Posted By -em >>To em (and all the CMs out there) you have my best wishes for better days and my advice to apply for any jobs that don't include pixie dust. Any employer that doesn't respect employees of the caliber of many WDW CMs doesn't deserve to have them.<< Thanks and I wouldnt have 6 version of my resume on my desktop if I wasnt trying... I think the prob is "EVERYONE" is trying to jump ship... >>It is a pretty bad state of affairs when DLP is cleaner and better maintained than WDW.<< Agreed... -em
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Get a backbone for pete's sake. If you think the economy is in good shape, say so and act confident. Don't "blame" others who are cautious, make up your OWN mind for once.>> I have made up my own mind. I've come to the conclusion that Mr X * millions of people like him have sent our economy into the crapper. It didn't have to be this way, but now it is. So now I have to join the gloom and doom crowd. The stock market is actually doing (more or less) OK. Christmas spending is not. You and the gloom and doomers have done your dirty work, and it has been successful. When everyone stops spending money we are hosed, and that is what is happening.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***The stock market is actually doing (more or less) OK.*** In your bizarre world, the stock market dropping about 50% in a year is "actually doing (more or less) OK". FIFTY percent. I can't help you here, you are delusional beyond belief. And I don't blame you for trying to pin things on some "boogyman", since you seem to have no grasp of the reality happening all around you. I simply pointed it out first (and iirc you called be a "chicken little" idiot, and all kinds of names like that). Perhaps you should look to the real culprits, or better yet forget about blaming someone and instead simply prepare yourself and those around you for much worse. It's assuredly possible (as always, I certainly hope NOT, but I'm not dumb enough to ignore evidence that is all around me...).
Originally Posted By Mr X So, the stock market crashes nearly FIFTY PERCENT in a year (the Great Depression wasn't quite on such a fast track...do your research), and according to RoadTripWorld is's "more or less okay"... Let's examine another front... The dollar hit an ALL TIME LOW against the Yen two days ago. Just this past Friday. Plenty of doomsayers here in Japan, RoadTrip, so why haven't THEY depressed their own currency with such amazing efficiency? Perhaps there are greater global, market forces at work? Perhaps something beyond "negativity" is the problem? Do you think that simple "negative thinking" caused the depression back in the 30's too? Some things just don't fit into a simple, easy mindset, RoadTrip? Too difficult to comprehend, right? Better to find a boogyman and blame HIM! I sincerely wish that life were as simplistic as you make it out to be in your head.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The stock market bottomed about thirty days ago. Yes, it lost a HUGE amount. But I think we've seen the worst. I truly don't know about the Yen thing. I never buy Sake. ;-) I do know that our exports are not doing as well as they had been because the dollar has recently gained against foreign currencies. I have no idea what is happening in Japan. They are truly a strange and wondrous nation. It’s not everyone who is stupid enough to attack America. So far it is Japan and Osama’s boys. Good company, huh?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom OK, guyz. Lets not place blame at Mr X's feet. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and perhaps if more people were listening to the "doom and gloom" crowd we would not be in the mess we are in. And if its as simple as those that "have" are not spending and once they start spending again then we will get out of this mess, then that sounds pretty good to me. Meanwhile, my best wishes go out to em and her fellow Cast Members. em I hope that despite all the less than enthuastic posts here you still have a cheery and warm holiday season. We are all thinking of you.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<As I said, the doom and gloomers have won.>> Sure. It has nothing to do with offshoring, stagnant wages and burst financial bubbles. It must be nice to work for the state. Almost as sweet a peach as a UAW job. And FWIW, I seen seen plenty of stats regarding Minnesota foreclosures. Its not "different there". There was a bubble, lots of low income people bought houses with subprime loans. Maybe prices didn't skyrocket like in other areas (they didn't here either) but the bubble was nationwide.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Last night I was at the Town Center Mall in Boca Raton>> Florida and Nevada are ground zero for the housing bubble collapse. I'm sure that a lot of those so callled "wealthy" people in Boca had their fortunes riding on the bubble.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Some might call such people "pragmatists" or "realists", but somehow you believe THOSE people have somehow CAUSED things to become terrible.>> Indeed. It has nothing to do with millions of mortgages given to people who cannot possibly pay them back, or the deluge of credit card debt that was accumulated and can't be paid back (this is going to be the next crisis) nor the stagnant wages (which in large part fueled the credit card debt). Nah, its just because a handful of Cassandras pointed this all out.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<The stock market bottomed about thirty days ago. Yes, it lost a HUGE amount. But I think we've seen the worst.>> I would wait for the FY09 Q1 numbers to come out before making such a bold prediction. If companies whose sales and profits have held up so far (like Microsoft, HP, IBM, etc.) have a hiccup this quarter the market will plunge to new depths. My money is on some major hiccups in January.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Sounds to me like whistling by the graveyard. Maybe Mr X and Spirit had it right. Has there ever been a post on Laughing Place where someone used Mr X and Spirit in the same sentence before? Wonders never cease!
