Originally Posted By MPierce >> It's sad how the attention span of Americans seem to be diminishing. << What did you say?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit, a torrential downpour forced me into China just the other day. It's not bad at all. I couldn't see myself doing the full length of the old show, but it was certainly entertaining. I fidget in Canada, and i'm not the only one. >> Again. It's all about instant gratification. And Epcot simply doesn't work as a park of 90 second thrill rides. So taking movies like Wonders of China, chopping half off, adding some new footage and naming it Reflections of China just doesn't work for me. If people can't watch a 20-minute film of amazing scenery without being bored than maybe they should stick to Six Flags. Or just ride Space Mountain 12 times in one day. I also think Disney is at least partly to blame here. ... They always used to talk up to their guests, to try and educate a bit while entertaining a lot. Now, I think they just use the excuse 'X-Box generation, instant gratification, yada, yada, yada' as reason for WalMarting their product. <<It's sad how the attention span of Americans seem to be diminishing.>> We've become a WalMart nation in many ways. I want it now. I want it quick. And I sure don't want to pay for it (or much). It's sad Disney has bought into that.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<We already lost a good attraction because of it (Timekeeper) and it is only a matter of time before another is gone, ah?>> Yeah, Goof and you know something? Monsters Laugh Floor is pulling in fewer guests than Timekeeper did when it was open regularly. A fact. So Disney spent millions for a lousy, ill-fitting attraction just to let fat, lazy folks get to sit? Sure seems like it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And Spirit of 74, that EPCOT Center suite of songs -- amazing. And great theater too. Like an overture for a musical -- which introduces the show's songs to the audience so that when they hear them in the show they seem familiar -- the EPCOT Center suite did the same thing. It's that kind of foresight and attention to detail that made Disney theme park so special.>> Yeah, Jim, you said it. Everything about EPCOT Center flowed together. It was a perfect execution of a grand concept/idea. And it worked fine ... for about a decade. Then it needed money, serious money, to keep it relevant. At the time Euro Disney was struggling, Frank Wells passed away, Eisner bought the network he always coveted, Disney's America took his attention stateside ... and what happened to EPCOT? It got old ... some of it got stale. And when they decided to start making changes they went the pop culture route ... Cranium Command (best of the lot), Honey, I Shrunk the Audience, Innoventions, Ellen's Energy Adventure, Circle of Life etc ... and Epcot became more of a stew of things all vying for attention. Now, you enter Epcot and you can be greeted by PoC and Peter Pan music, as was done for the Flower and Garden show. There's just no cohesion anymore.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I don't know for sure that the song isn't used (I suspect not as that is the trend and it is a completely new movie and score so would not necessarily be appropriate to hamstrung the new creative team with a hangover).>> Maybe you can suggest they play it in the pre/post show at the very least <<I'm not also sure of the length but will check.>> Thanks!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Any word on the aweful purple netting behind Spaceship Earth?? Will it also be going the way of the dodo when the wand leaves??? That stuff really blocks the views of Spaceship Earth from the fountain plaza.>> I believe the Millennium Treatment Package (as I like to call it) will be heading out as well.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I also think Disney is at least partly to blame here. ... They always used to talk up to their guests, to try and educate a bit while entertaining a lot. Now, I think they just use the excuse 'X-Box generation, instant gratification, yada, yada, yada' as reason for WalMarting their product.>> It seems rather circular to blame Disney for providing exactly what guests what. Virtually all of WS's attractions were under-performing except for Maelstrom. People wanted a different experience from Epcot in the '90s/'00s and that is what they got. In the most part it has been successful like Test Track, Soarin', The Seas with Nemo and Friends and Mission:SPACE (and in terms of throughput it is successful even if it doesn't post 90-120 minute wait times). Other times it has not (Imagination!). But I also don't see how Epcot is a WalMart-ed product (a phrase I detest anyhow). Nothing in that park is a clone except for Soarin'. Everything else is unique and that continues to be the case with the new product like SSE, Mexico, Canada and American Adventure. The days of edutainment (a ridiculous term that many of the imagineers that worked on the orginal project hate) are long gone. I'm glad. Being preached to on rides like Universe of Energy was plain awful. 42 minutes of pain. You might not like Ellen's Energy Adventure but is does manage to be a better entertainment experience whilst maintain a show script that shows the problems we face today.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN There is nothing about clueless presidents or wars in Ellen's Universe last time I checked.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <It seems rather circular to blame Disney for providing exactly what guests what. Virtually all of WS's attractions were under-performing except for Maelstrom. People wanted a different experience from Epcot in the '90s/'00s and that is what they got. In the most part it has been successful like Test Track, Soarin', The Seas with Nemo and Friends and Mission:SPACE (and in terms of throughput it is successful even if it doesn't post 90-120 minute wait times). Other times it has not (Imagination!). < not being an 'insider' in this discussion I can only say Lee that yes I do believe that Disney has given today's crowd ( sans x % of us) exactly what they want, not the reverse in that they tried to change what people wanted. As with anything, this doesn't mean all of us will ever agree that this is for the better. But then, I prefer an art museum to Kiddieland, I prefer an Aquarium to a carnival, and I prefer a planetarium to Dave & Buster's -- I realize I am probably the odd one now. I never felt like I was being preached to and viewed EPCOT as the a cut above all other 'amusement/theme' parks from an intellectual standpoint. I still think it is, just not like it used to be .... The masses are going to get what they want, that's marketing...I understand that. I also would think it is disingenuous to list MS as a success when the basis for rating removed attractions was that they were underperforming.....I can't believe MS is not underperforming everyone's expectations who approved putting that attraction in, and predict that it too will be as poorly attended or likely worse when it is as old as WoM, Horizons and JiYI were when hatcheted. I know some people don't like TT ( I actually do ) - but it has never underperformed from an attendance standpoint and has been around twice as long as MS. just my opinion of course....
Originally Posted By Skellington88 M:S is not a sucessful attraction sorry. It does not draw the crowds an e-ticket should and it has caused bad publicity for disney time and time again. On top of that the attraction itself is nothing to right home about with themeing virutally non-existant creating a bare bone experince that climaxes in you sitting in a claustrophobic box watching cheap archacic CGI graphics that supposedly simulate "space travel". Star Tours did a far superior job 20 years earlier.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I also would think it is disingenuous to >>>list MS as a success when the basis for rating removed attractions was that they were underperforming.....I can't believe MS is not underperforming everyone's expectations who approved putting that attraction in, and predict that it too will be as poorly attended or likely worse when it is as old as WoM, Horizons and JiYI were when hatcheted.<<< I do agree that MS is under performing based on expected popularity but that is not the fault of the attraction itself. That is primarily the result of a massive campaign, probably unintentional, to scare the crap out of everyone that ever considered trying it. I have ridden rides for years, never once have I had motion sickness or any long term ill effects from any of them. When I first rode MS, I could not believe how apprehensive I was. Everywhere I looked or read I saw stuff like, "people are getting sick" or "people are dying" and to listen it would have to be assumed that this was happening to the masses. I do know that people are massively suggestible. If someone tells you enough that you are going to get sick, there is a better than even chance you will do so just by the mere suggestion. Anyway, I contemplated long and hard before riding MS. Finally I did and the first word out of my mouth at the end of the ride was "awesome". I never use that word, ever! What a rush. I think it was the best themed, planned and executed ride ever built. It did, I will acknowledge, create some forces that have had an impact on people that have ignored the signs and ridden it anyway, then blamed the ride for their problems. Now that they have the milder version I think with time, people will either forget what happened early on or not have been aware of it and it will increase in popularity. It is too bad that it had to be "dumbed down" but now it has a doability for everyone and that is a good decision.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I have ridden rides for years, never once have I had motion sickness or any long term ill effects from any of them< you do realize the vast majority of people would be very envious of this statement. I could not make it and I am a thrill rider -- I can ride most of the biggest fastest - upside down monster coasters anywhere w/o an issue. However Body Wars always made me nauseous / the tea cups do now for the last 5 years or so ( age ) - the stupid pirate ship boats that you find at carnivals everywhere does, and MS did. I was not apprehensive going on at all, yet it bothered my equilibrium. I was not falling down dizzy or anything, but it made me more than a little queasy -- not something I want from a WDW visit. I have not been on the new version, but really the ride did not do that much for me anyway...maybe I had set my expectations too high. Don't get me wrong, it's OK - but compared to other -Tickets -- the enjoyment factor for me just isn't there. This may be an odd statement, but it came tome as I was thinking about why I like it far less than Everest / Splash / Thunder etc. -- maybe being outside adds to my enjoyment on a thrill ride -- HM / potc inside are more relaxing type rides. Need to noodle on this some more...
Originally Posted By Labuda "and MS did. I was not apprehensive going on at all, yet it bothered my equilibrium. I was not falling down dizzy or anything, but it made me more than a little queasy -- not something I want from a WDW visit. " OOk, no to give the impression I"m a lush, BUT after drinking my way around the World Showcase in April, I went on M:S. Slightly tipsy, becuase I'd had all that booze that day, though not drunk because my friend and I took 8 hours or so to do it. Anyhow, Ann on M:S sober - eyes water horrendously at takeoff and a TEENSY bit "off" when departing. Ann on M:S when slightly tipsy: OUTSTANDING! No watery eyes, namazingly invigorating ride, and I honestly think it helped sober me up a bit! LOL
Originally Posted By vbdad55 so you're saying I should do MS after a few yards of Guinness at Rose & Crown ? I would have thought the opposite, but maybe I'll give that a try
Originally Posted By Labuda Honestly? If you're going to be having "a few pints", give it a shot! I'm just bummed I'm not a big drinker, so I'll be back to feeling a bit odd and having watery eyes again next month! lol Hmmm, maybe I'll jjust have a couple shots at the Rose & Crown and THEN head over to MS! lol Nahhh, I'll just ride sober.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>Nothing in that park is a clone except for Soarin'.<<< Cough! Nemo-Lite...COUGH! Honey I Sprayed The Audience... COUGH! Innoventions... COUGH! Project Tomorrow... COUGH! Man. The pollen is really bad these days...
Originally Posted By MPierce I never new Innoventions was built after DL's version or that the Living Seas with Nemo was a clone. Same with HISTA, and I really don't know what Project Tomorrow is, would you mined telling me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It seems rather circular to blame Disney for providing exactly what guests what.>> Perhaps. But I don't see Disney, in many cases, giving guests what they want. Compare Alien Encounter and Timekeeper (when it was open full-time and not hidden away, off park maps) to their replacements in terms of daily turnstyle clicks. <<Virtually all of WS's attractions were under-performing except for Maelstrom.>> The first Disney attraction in Florida to disappoint me, even with talented folks working on it. Of course all those budget cuts didn't help, either. <<People wanted a different experience from Epcot in the '90s/'00s and that is what they got.>> Well, if we're talking about FW that's certainly true, but WS is virtually untouched. The China film and recent redo of Mexico aren't major changes in format or quality. <<In the most part it has been successful like Test Track, Soarin', The Seas with Nemo and Friends and Mission:SPACE (and in terms of throughput it is successful even if it doesn't post 90-120 minute wait times). Other times it has not (Imagination!). >> We've discussed this many times before. I love Soarin and think it was a great addition, albeit they did it on the cheap by not making a new unique film. Test Track, I dispise. But I am fully able to appreciate that most folks disagree and that's kewl. Nemo may be a success, but they did a half-assed job on the whole pavilion and some of the other (more expensive) concepts for the Seas would have been more in keeping with the park's theme than adding cartoon fish, but I do like the redo. Mission Space simply isn't the success Disney wanted or expected when they greenlit the project. Not even close. Between deaths, illness and bad pub, there would be enough to say it isn't a success ... the fact they have turned off half the centrifuges and turned it into Body Wars: The Next Generation more than erases any doubt. And Imagination? Well, you're right, the less said, the better. Hmm... what are we leaving out? Oh yeah, WoL, which sits and decays 11 months of the year with three major attractions closed. <<But I also don't see how Epcot is a WalMart-ed product (a phrase I detest anyhow).>> And I hear some folks at TDO also detest it. Oh well, you can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself. (first caller to the 70s music trivia line gets a free spirit tee!) But whenever I see Eric Jacobson's giant cartoon wand over SSE (thankfully for not much longer), all I think of is tacky, low-quality, mass-marketed crap ... that's WalMart. <<Nothing in that park is a clone except for Soarin'.>> Uhm ... Honey, I Shrunk the Audience? Innoventions? Even almost all of Nemo is in the subs, isn't it? <<Everything else is unique and that continues to be the case with the new product like SSE, Mexico, Canada and American Adventure. The days of edutainment (a ridiculous term that many of the imagineers that worked on the orginal project hate) are long gone. I'm glad. Being preached to on rides like Universe of Energy was plain awful. 42 minutes of pain. You might not like Ellen's Energy Adventure but is does manage to be a better entertainment experience whilst maintain a show script that shows the problems we face today.>> I dunno about that at all. I don't see crowds lining up for Ellen's Energy Adventure any more than they did for UoE. I don't want to rip her or anything, I've met her and she's very nice in addition to being a talent but another Emmy!? ... wait, I'm digressing ... but I don't see lines for anything at Epcot except for SSE, TT and Soarin ... that's it.
