Originally Posted By oc_dean Yookeroo ... I'll admit most of what I post here on LP is my opinion. And that's all you got too! Just thought I'd remind the king of "sharp elbow into the ribs" tiny comments. Like .. "Because it is." Most of your responses to me, are exactly that. Short ... and no substance. Carry on!
Originally Posted By DismayingObservation Been a long time since I've posted, but I thought this was worth weighing in for. I saw the holiday version in December and the new year-round version in March when I went on my birthday. Been back on it a couple of times since. The sets and surrounding areas are sparkling. Everything works as it should as far as I could see. No more dusty, worn dolls and no more dusty, worn sets. The new elements blend well, but I agree that the Cleopatra music is a bit jarring. Not bad, though. It only lasts a moment as you enter the scene. My only other qualm: The Pinocchio figure is a bit out of scale and almost looks like an afterthought. It's borderline geeky looking IMO and would likely have been better if it were either more abstract like the White Rabbit or a 3D Mary Blair doll. Best improvements beyond the new Americana scene: No more gurgling mermaids...and Stitch on the surfboard in the Polynesia scene is priceless. After years of deriding this attraction, I actually found myself enjoying it for the first time in decades. Bravo, Disneyland!
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>I'd like to throw him into a room .. and watch An "American In Paris":17 minute Ballet ... 50 times in a row.<< AAAAAAUGH! Once sets my teeth on edge. I believe the American in Paris ballet is the most self indulgent, boring seventeen minutes from the Golden Age of Hollywood. I'll take the Girl Hunt ballet from The Bandwagon or the Broadway ballet from Singin' in the Rain any day of the week! And that's the point-- so much of this is just opinion. But some here would have us believe that if you don't agree that iasw has been desecrated, you hate Disney or Mary Blair...
Originally Posted By oc_dean Well .. everyone has their own tastes and opinions. And if some people think the Ballet number from an American In Paris is one of the worst things on Earth .. Well ... I'm just going to be polite, and hold my tongue.
Originally Posted By danyoung Good for you, dean. I agree with Dug on many things, but I'm on your side on this one - I love every minute of An American in Paris, including the ballet. Just proves the point that we all have opinions, and no one's wrong or right.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt Your kidding right?? <a href="http://legends.disney.go.com/legends/detail?key=Mary%20Blair" target="_blank">http://legends.disney.go.com/l...%20Blair</a>
Originally Posted By mawnck >>But some here would have us believe that if you don't agree that iasw has been desecrated, you hate Disney or Mary Blair...<< And UNICEF. You also hate UNICEF. And world peace.
Originally Posted By danyoung mawnck, it's good to see you joking about this. But there has actually been some pretty rough things said on one side or the other, with "my" side saying that "your" side is out of touch with today's park customer, and "your" side saying that "my" side just doesn't get it and has no respect for the purity of attractions. Just as you recently realized after seeing the new iasw for the first time, there are plenty of gray areas, and thus plenty of room for civilized discussion.
Originally Posted By TMICHAEL >>>there are plenty of gray areas, and thus plenty of room for civilized discussion.<<< So true, but for myself, that is the entire problem with this thread. The changes and additions are 100% subjective to each individuals taste and actual like/dislike of the attraction to begin with. A few people who can't stand the additions have gone a bit, oh, shall we be nice and say overboard, literally berating anyone who could care less or... heaven forbid... actually like some or all of the additions. And one who keeps popping up, just to keep this thread running it seems, hasn't even seen the additions first hand. Forming a concrete opinion by what little can be seen online. This to me is very akin to reviewing a movie without having seen it. Very irresponsible and holds no credibility. Sure, they most likely hate the additions in person, but they will have experienced it with all of their senses. Pictures and video really can not replace a tangible experience. The other side has also been driven onto the rude road, but that mainly seems to be in defense of their point. You can only be called wrong, an idiot, not worth the time to discuss with, or my fave "you have no clue as to what Walt wanted" so many times before taking verbal action. And at the end of the day, none of these rants are going to get people to change their minds or give validation where it isn't due.
Originally Posted By danyoung >And one who keeps popping up, just to keep this thread running it seems, hasn't even seen the additions first hand. Forming a concrete opinion by what little can be seen online.< Well, this seems to describe me, but I hope that I'm not the one you meant. I haven't seen the new iasw yet, and I've made it clear that I haven't and that my viewpoint might change once I do. Nothing concrete about me - I'm wishy washy all the way!
Originally Posted By TMICHAEL No, not you dan, not going to call any one poster out but it wasn't you.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "17 minute ballet? No explosions? No fart jokes? Ewwwwwwww!" See, if all you see in today's movies are fart jokes and explosions, you're not paying too much attention. There was plenty of dreck made way back in the "good ole days", it just didn't last. The past always looks good when you only remember the best stuff (although I'd hardly count An American In Paris among the best).
Originally Posted By mawnck >>And one who keeps popping up, just to keep this thread running it seems, hasn't even seen the additions first hand. Forming a concrete opinion by what little can be seen online. This to me is very akin to reviewing a movie without having seen it. Very irresponsible and holds no credibility. << Even with my "softening" of opinion (which isn't that much softer, really) I strenuously disagree with this whole line of reasoning. I have still not backed off my initial claim that the characters are a distraction and are grossly off-topic for what the creators had in mind, and I don't think one has to see the characters at all to form that opinion, any more than one had to actually see "Hotel for Dogs" to know with absolute Biblical certainty that it was pretty dumb. Also, remember I said that only a few of the characters are unobtrusive enough to not damage the creators' intended experience. For the most part I saw exactly what I expected, and the online photos and videos did not mislead or create an inaccurate impression. The biggest surprise for me was that the America room was even worse than it looked. And as if I haven't caused enough trouble, I STILL maintain that the character-yes faction has been a lot more dismissive of their opponents than the character-no faction, as indicated by the sheer volume of posts that contain a sentence like "Oh you're just (resistant to change, focusing on the negative, making assumptions, criticizing without actually seeing it, pretending you know what Walt would have wanted, foolishly inflating a little boat ride to a work of art, etc.)." No, I'm not "just" anything. I don't usually pull rank like this, but I've been using my years of experience in showcraft, artwork, and other facets of entertainment media to point out the weaknesses in this very very bad idea. You'll notice there are very few artistic types anywhere who have come out as being OK with these changes, and an awful lot who are on the record as dead set against them. Even Alice Davis only endorsed her friend the Imagineer in charge of the changes, not the changes themselves. And I'm sorry, but "well the characters didn't bother ME any" is not an answer to all that. There's also the issue of the lies that came from Disney spokespeople about what the changes were going to be like (the internet rumors are wrong, the changes will be different from Hong Kong, there won't be an America room) but that seems to have become Disney's SOP for handling tee'd-off fans, so I guess there's no sense whining about that anymore. >>See, if all you see in today's movies are fart jokes and explosions, you're not paying too much attention. << You're right ... I forgot the crotch hits.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I STILL maintain that the character-yes faction has been a lot more dismissive of their opponents than the character-no faction...< And my recollection is that it's been the no side that has been dismissive of the yes side, with posts like "You just don't get it" or "You don't care as much as I do" or "I have a degree in Imagineering and you don't". So I guess it's all perception. >And I'm sorry, but "well the characters didn't bother ME any" is not an answer to all that.< It doesn't have to be. It's simply what a person sees and reacts to. I don't need to answer the volumes of challenges and artistic treatises on this subject - I just need to respond based on what I personally experience. >Even Alice Davis only endorsed her friend the Imagineer in charge of the changes, not the changes themselves.< Without looking up the exact quote, I'm pretty sure Ms. Davis flat out said that the changes looked great and fit in with the theme of the attraction. She wasn't wild about the concept, but thought the execution was well handled. As to the "lies" in the press releases, that's a completely different topic, with no real bearing on the new characters or whether they work or don't work.
Originally Posted By Bellella Why do they keep doing this? Why do they have to toon up EVERY SINGLE CORNER of their theme parks? The only things sold in their stores are Disney related merchandise, and now they toon up every single ride? When will it stop? mawnck, I'd be happy to call you comrade. However, if we do anything bad to the "plussed", not improved, Small World, we'd be no better than the people who put the characters there in the first place. Obviously, they don't think that it's an act of vandalism, since they own the ride.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Why do they keep doing this?>> I could ask you the same question. Why do you keep doing this?
Originally Posted By mawnck >>However, if we do anything bad to the "plussed", not improved, Small World, we'd be no better than the people who put the characters there in the first place.<< (1) I wouldn't dream of harming a single feather on Jose Carioca's head, nor would I want anyone else to do so ... (2) and even if I would, I have no plans to return to DL park unless they let me in free again. I do still have my two-fer day at DCA ...
Originally Posted By TMICHAEL >>>Even with my "softening" of opinion (which isn't that much softer, really) I strenuously disagree with this whole line of reasoning. I have still not backed off my initial claim that the characters are a distraction and are grossly off-topic for what the creators had in mind, and I don't think one has to see the characters at all to form that opinion, any more than one had to actually see "Hotel for Dogs" to know with absolute Biblical certainty that it was pretty dumb.<<< But, as I also stated, that is the entire 'problem' with debating a very gray subject. Just to take your example...Hotel for Dogs was not seeking you as its demographic. Of course you'd think it was dumb but take a little kid who loves dogs and they'll eat it up. Just an aside, I didn't bother with HfD but did, as a Huskey lover, waste money on Snow Dogs, iye-yie-yie, what a waste. And too, on a flight just this past weekend, when given the choice to watch ANYTHING on her personal DVD player, this little 4 year old girl seated in front of me actually chose with huge enthusiasm Space Buddies over everything else her parents brought, go figure. But back to Small World Before actually going on the ride, I thought many of the characters looked pretty stupid, especially the Three Cabilleros. After going on, I thought they were actually one of the better additions. But the America room, well, that needs a lot of help. Very jarring going from the cool hues and whimsy of the rainforest to the warm colors and bland scenes of America then back to the cool blues, purples and white of the finale. But hey, that is MY OPINION, not trying to get others to agree or change their minds like a few others seem intent on doing.
