Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<What they're saying with the ride now is: "We're not using this ride to promote world peace anymore.">> JMHO, the message of world peace is still there.
Originally Posted By Bellella If they knew that the message of world peace would always be on the ride, and if they knew the ride wasn't getting any less popular, why would they put in the characters in the first place?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss It's just what Disney calls plussing. The Jungle Cruise has always been popular too, but they added some new stuff to look at.
Originally Posted By Bellella Not Disney characters. And if they decide to "plus" the Tiki Room that way, it'll be something very regrettable for them.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss You're kinda new here, but we've been on this topic a long time. I actually agree that Disney has relied a bit too much on characters, and are in danger of "over-tooning" their parks. But as for IaSW itself, I would actually say it is one of the more successful additions. IMO it's a better fit than Nemo on the Subs, for instance.
Originally Posted By danyoung >"We're not using this ride to promote world peace anymore. We're using it to promote our characters...< How in the world is Disney promoting its characters by including them in this attraction? Why would they need to get more promotion for Aladdin or Ariel? It's not at all about promotion - it's about having identifiable characters that people recognize, and using them to plus an attraction. You can agree or disagree all you want as to whether they fit or not. But to say that Disney in some way needs to get more face time for Stitch is just silly.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Bellella .. I've been on it a couple times. The ride is fortunately big enough to absorb the few characters 'okay' .. and for those who are sensitive to the original "heart" of the ride, may find the additions a bit tacky in it's overall conception. A couple exceptions .. No one would know it's Aladdin and Jasmine on the carpet, as they look the same as the rest of the "children" surrounding them .... but Disney Marketing makes up for it .. by positioning them at an angle to the flume so you can't miss them! Only Simba and Pumba come off with any "grace".
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>and are in danger of "over-tooning" their parks.<< It's already happening. 1999 - Tarzan's Treehouse 2002 - Flick's Fun Faire 2003 - Winnie the Pooh 2004 - Monsters Inc. 2005 - Buzz Lightyear 2007 - Nemo subs 2008 - Pixie Hollow 2009 - Disney character invasion: 'small world'
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>I'm afraid I have to disagree. I'm afraid I have to say that the new characters are slightly tasteless.<< Also wanted to say ... you're not the only one to state it that exact way. As I've been reading around the web, even those who don't like the ride that much, have commented on it that way.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss We've been down this road before too. I still say Tarzan and Pixie Hollow are washes. Pooh is too, for that matter; he is no more a toon than the Bears. As for FFF, well, I have never even bothered to go back there, even when it was whatever it was before (was it Bountiful Farm?)
Originally Posted By oc_dean I wonder .. for those who have been in favor of the additions of the Disney characters ........ I would ask - Are you big fans of the line-up of characters with an array of collectibles on the characters in your house? I just wonder if these debates are divided into two basic camps. Those who are major fans of the characters, and are SUBSEQUENT fans to Disneyland second. And those like myself - Who are Disneyland fans first, and mild fans to the parade of characters second. I just want to say ... for anyone in the Walt Disney Co. monitoring these discussions - to remember: These Disney fansite communities are made up of various types of "Disney" fans. Some, more about the characters. Some, more about the parks. And it would be easy round up ALL discussions .. and take their own little "consensus" on who's the majority. And if the so-called "majority" speaks in their favor - then that's all they need to justify their actions. I just want to remind Disney Corporate- Not everyone who has been faithful to the parks (along with their wallets) ... Are all uber fans of the branded characters.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Trek .. FFF was an ADDITION tacked on to the back side of Bountiful Farm.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I just wonder if these debates are divided into two basic camps. Those who are major fans of the characters, and are SUBSEQUENT fans to Disneyland second. And those like myself - Who are Disneyland fans first, and mild fans to the parade of characters second.>> Nope. I never really cared about the characters, and still don't. But I do collect the CARS line of diecast toys; at the moment I am more obsessed about that than the parks. Haven't been to a Disney park in a couple of years. Probably be headed to WDW this fall though.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "How in the world is Disney promoting its characters by including them in this attraction?" Maybe it isn't. But at the same time, how in the world is Disney promoting the idea of world peace by including them in the attraction? Everything at Disney is done for a reason (mainly, money). It couldn't have been cheap to make the additions and do the minor advertising for them, so why was it done? It didn't increase the popularity of the attraction from what I can tell (it always had a decent sized line), and it didn't add to the world peace message of the attraction. The only other reason that I can think of is that it was to make more money and more publicity for the characters. "2009 - Disney character invasion: 'small world'" Don't forget to include the opening of Mickey's Fun Wheel and the additions of all the re-themed Games of the Boardwalk, which are all themed to various Disney characters. The games I honestly don't mind that much since they were so painfully generic before, but I figure they should be included in the count. I think that the Silly Symphony Swings (themed to a Mickey short, NOT a Silly Symphony...is it really that hard to come up with an appropriate name) will also open later in the year. Triton's Carousel will also reopen, but it's already character themed. Also, Toy Story Midway Mania was left off from 2008.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Yeah. Thanks Ferret. I forgot Midway Mania. DCA is on that same track .. with only one attraction not a character tie-in. The Red Car. That would be an interesting discussion for the DCA section. Just about everything in the 1.2 billion upgrades are all toon-related.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I just wonder if these debates are divided into two basic camps. Those who are major fans of the characters, and are SUBSEQUENT fans to Disneyland second. And those like myself - Who are Disneyland fans first, and mild fans to the parade of characters second.< I think trekkeruss & I have blown holes in that theory. I'm not that into Disney characters - I was a Warner Brothers fan growing up. I don't think I've ever seen a Mickey cartoon all the way through, although I do appreciate his place in animated history. So no, I don't care more for the cartoons than I do for the park. >The only other reason that I can think of is that it was to make more money and more publicity for the characters.< In the long run, everything that Disney corporate allows the park designers to do has to have the ultimate goal of making money. That's a sad change from the Walt days, but it's pretty obvious. Now, if they can do things that please the public while making money, then that's a win win. Why do we continually place a dastardly spin on Disney execs or park designers? Couldn't the inclusion of the Disney characters into iasw simply have been to (in their opinion) make the ride more interesting, fresher, more current? Yeah, there are some merch tie-ins, but we're not talking huge bucks here. Isn't it just possible that there are still some imagineers out there who want to make an attraction better (even though there are many park uber-fans who don't think they did so here)?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<DCA is on that same track .. with only one attraction not a character tie-in. The Red Car. That would be an interesting discussion for the DCA section. Just about everything in the 1.2 billion upgrades are all toon-related.>> Dude, where you been?? Mostly what is discussed in the DCA boards is how tooned up that place has become and how it has been overrun by Pixar in the last 5 years, ESPECIALLY with the additions coming. Hell, because of the new Monsters Inc ride in TDL, it has reopened the debate about DCA's Monsters Inc and how necessary it was for that park? And I said this a thousand times, I know, but it took DL about 40 years to really start tooning up the park outside of FL. It took DCA about 3 years . DL still only has two attractions that are Pixar based while DCA has well over a dozen. Thats quite amazing for a park that litterally only had one in 2001. The tooning of the Disney parks has been in full force lately, but I would say DL is a distant second compared to whats happening to its sister park. The consensus seems to now be at the WDC if something is aging, needs to be renovated, added or replaced, the answer seems to be toon it up regardless how appropriate it is which is sad!! That said, I personnally have no problems with the additions of IASW as you and others know...give me a reason to ride it . I also dont think the message is lost. How can it be when the song still hits you over the head with 100 times??? I dont get these 'subtle' arguments when it comes to this ride since this is one of the most unsubtle attractions I ever rode. Its almost like riding HM which is about...uh, ghosts, but then someone decides to throw Eddie Murphy AA in there for the movie and all of a sudden the message is lost?? I dont know, just seems odd to me. I just give people a little more credit that the ride they been riding for decades now will still just be as easily to grasp as it was before just because Peter Pan and Woody is there. That said, I understand if people think its tasteless for them. That word is probably a little too strong for me, but I get it. I just think for some, its a neat little addition, at least it was for me in Hong Kong, so I cant imagine it being much difference in DL.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I think uber-fans just have to accept that DL is no longer one man's dream. They'll keep pieces of his legacy alive as it suits the needs of the company, but don't expect any kind of vision that goes much beyond entertainment.
Originally Posted By Bellella I'm more a fan of Disneyland and the Disney movies than the character merchandising. Though I have an extensive collection, I don't want to have everything. Look, we can see Disney characters in stores everywhere, in movies, even walking around the parks. They already have rides (Snow White's Scary Adventures, Peter Pan's Flight) designed to promote the characters. They certainly don't need to have the characters intrude anywhere else. They've definitely crossed the fine line now.
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>Why do we continually place a dastardly spin on Disney execs or park designers? Couldn't the inclusion of the Disney characters into iasw simply have been to (in their opinion) make the ride more interesting, fresher, more current? << Yeah! And the world, and us humans are perfect, and every creative decision is sound, and always correct in their execution. Compared to the better years at WED/WDI .. to the newer days with such "treats" as Monsters Inc. Comedy Floor, lost count with the number of Journey Into Imagination remakes. Have they got it right yet? Difference between you and me, Dan, I don't apply the same amount of trust and faith in the current line of creative decision makers. The track record from 1955 to 1995 was pretty darn good. It's gotten a bit better .. but it's spotty. I'll be happy if a day ever comes ... Don't know if Lassetter can do it in his lifetime with Disney............ I want to see the same kind of creative thinking Walt had in his day. Creative thinking that sets the same high standard the "Claude Coats", and the "Marc Davis'" can deliver.
