Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I'm not a Defender of Mediocrity !" Enough Dean. Seriously. You are starting to worry me with some of your rants lately.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: Well, I'd still rather have the Snow White dark ride instead of the dwarf coaster. It really isn't a bad dark ride at all and is better than Peter Pan's Flight to Neverland--which is the dark ride that REALLY needs an upgrade. I've ridden Snow White's Scary Adventures many times and see nothing that bad about it and don't understand why those who complain against it do so. I'm wondering what color they sky is in THEIR worlds! They're just misrepresenting Snow White's dark ride all over the place.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Yes, Peter Pan could certainly use an upgrade. It would be great to have the WDW Peter Pan receive the same treatment that the DL Pan got. But Peter Pan even as it exists has something that Snow White never had... charm. Hour plus waits for Pan versus 10-minute waits for Snow White show that most WDW visitors agree with me. Blue. Thanks for asking.
Originally Posted By Scutr No, Hans, I think he's right. The FL addition could have easily been much better than what it seems as though it'll be. Their big selling points are: a) a restaurant. Okay, it's a nice restaurant, and maybe they needed another sit-down food service facility, but it's still just a restaurant; b) an elaborately themed Little Mermaid dark ride that, from the DCA ride videos I've seen, is underwhelming; c) a Dwarf MINE Train that spends 0 time actually IN the mines it's named for; d) a themed-area and second set of Dumbo twirlers; oh and e) plenty of places, no doubt, to buy the same generic souvenirs available everywhere else in the park. They could have done better. Given their abundance of room, they could have elaborated on "Little Mermaid" and made a longer ride. The movie's chief villain, Ursula, seems underused. The Mine Train should have actually been designed to actually take place in the mines with just a short section (if any) being outdoors. With Florida's wetter climate this would have allowed the ride to be open on rainy days. As it is, that's not likely. The existing SWSA should have been moved to the new area. It could have then been upgraded or have it's "scare factor" toned down. As for Dumbo? How about an indoor Dumbo "hanging coaster" style ride re-creating the movie's flight inside the circus tent? Hanging coasters are extremely smooth and could have appealed to larger children and 'tweens as well as adults. A "D" Ticket not an "E". What I think Dean is trying to say is that if they're trying to compete with UNI's Potter-land THEY ABSOLUTELY COULD HAVE DONE BETTER. That Disney's not only not raising the bar here, they're not really even trying to meet it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<What I think Dean is trying to say is that if they're trying to compete with UNI's Potter-land THEY ABSOLUTELY COULD HAVE DONE BETTER. That Disney's not only not raising the bar here, they're not really even trying to meet it.>> No matter WHAT Disney did with the Fantasyland Expansion they would be unable to compete with Harry Potter. That is a once-in-a-lifetime franchise that Disney was foolish to pass on. But what's done is done... there is no way Disney can un-do it now.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer So much has changed in the past few months...not. The point is that Disney can do better and should do better. FLE isn't a cure-all. It's nice, I'm looking forward to it, but it's not the NUMBER ONE REASON to get back to MK. That revolves around adding something substantial and original, in my mind. Other reasons to go back are rooted in history and appreciation of the classics. The problem is, most of those classics are in poor condition, too. The only reason I have stepped into a Disney Park in 2012 was the fact that it was free... But beyond that, they don't deserve my money. There's too much in the world to see.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt “No, Hans, I think he's right. The FL addition could have easily been much better than what it seems as though it'll be.” Well of course it could have been better, but making dramatic remarks about Snow White being removed and defenders of mediocrity is borderline crazy. It’s impossible to take anyone seriously who talks this way. “a) a restaurant. Okay, it's a nice restaurant, and maybe they needed another sit-down food service facility, but it's still just a restaurant;” Matter of opinion I guess. Everyone has to eat at a theme park, so why not make that part of the experience? I happen to look forward to dining in unique restaurants at Disney parks, so the Beast’s restaurant is actually just as much of an attraction for me as Snow White. I seem to recall that much fanfare was made about Harry Potter’s shops and restaurants when Wizarding World opened. Why is this any different? “b) an elaborately themed Little Mermaid dark ride that, from the DCA ride videos I've seen, is underwhelming;” More underwhelming than Snow White? Seems to me this is a huge step up from that attraction. "c) a Dwarf MINE Train that spends 0 time actually IN the mines it's named for;" Huh? The promo video shows at least one show scene in a mine with the Dwarfs. "d) a themed-area and second set of Dumbo twirlers; oh and" Well it is Fantasyland right, and Dumbo is an iconic attraction. Do you have something against Dumbo? "e) plenty of places, no doubt, to buy the same generic souvenirs available everywhere else in the park." We’ll see. But I don’t have my hopes up. Even if they’d built out the land to everyone’s satisfaction the souvenirs would probably still suck. Disney Parks jumped the shark on selling junk in their stores decades ago. I don’t even bother shopping at the parks anymore.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I guess my question for everyone is... Is this the best that Disney can do?
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Hans, I believe the Defenders of Mediocrity line was a direct response to this >>>Man, you Disney Purists live in a world of your own. What color is the sky in your world??<<< I think Dean was just fighting rant with rant.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Yes, what they're building does look like it will be a nice addition, but I wish they could have taken it a step further and given us something beyond our expectations. It looks like a lovely expansion that will extend the physical size of what's already there, but there's nothing that looks like it will blow me away. And with the rate of in-park development at WDW lately, it seems like this is all the MK is getting for a while, which is a little disappointing. But the additions themselves will be nice enough. >>“a) a restaurant. Okay, it's a nice restaurant, and maybe they needed another sit-down food service facility, but it's still just a restaurant;” Matter of opinion I guess. Everyone has to eat at a theme park, so why not make that part of the experience? I happen to look forward to dining in unique restaurants at Disney parks, so the Beast’s restaurant is actually just as much of an attraction for me as Snow White. I seem to recall that much fanfare was made about Harry Potter’s shops and restaurants when Wizarding World opened. Why is this any different?<< Yes everybody has to eat in the park, so it's fine to add a well done restaurant, but MK already has so many closed restaurants that it doesn't make sense to build one from scratch. The BATB restaurant has a huge footprint on prime real estate that could have been used for an attraction. Instead, we're getting a restaurant, while the huge facilities in Adventureland and at the entrance to Tomorrowland (among others) have been closed or 'seasonal' for years. I'm all for a really immersive dining environment, but the BATB restaurant doesn't seem to be the best use of funds, facilities, and land available. >>“b) an elaborately themed Little Mermaid dark ride that, from the DCA ride videos I've seen, is underwhelming;” More underwhelming than Snow White? Seems to me this is a huge step up from that attraction.<< I think it's a matter of expectations. People go into Snow White is pretty low expecations, since it's a modest attraction with a modest facade and modest queue area. The Little Mermaid (both at DCA and MK) has a big flashy building, tons of queue space (MK's appears to also be very well themed), and a huge promotional push. It is better than Snow White, but the everything about it builds up the expecations so high, that the ride itself it somewhat of a letdown. It's somewhere between the charm of Snow White and the large-scale impressiveness of the Haunted Mansion, yet doesn't quite manage to fall in either category. Since it's such a strange in-between attraction, I think people have a hard time figuring out how 'great' it is. It's one of my favorite attractions at DCA, but I still prefer many of DL's darkrides to it.
Originally Posted By Scutr >> The promo video shows at least one show scene in a mine with the Dwarfs.<< Oh c'mon, you're nit-picking. That whizzes y so fast it must last all of, what, 2 or 3 seconds on a ride that lasts 2 minutes or so? If you're gonna call it a "mine train" it ought to be in the mine, don'tcha think? >>d) a themed-area and second set of Dumbo twirlers; ..." Well it is Fantasyland right, and Dumbo is an iconic attraction. Do you have something against Dumbo? << Of course not! Although I am not fond of circuses, at all. They breed CLOWNS! ::shudder:: I have no issue with the fact that they've moved him into his own little themed area. I just think (and I illustrated) that much more could have been done there. And, hey, aren't you one of the ones who have complained in the past about Disney adding so many pre-packaged twirlers to the parks? >> "it's still just a restaurant;” Matter of opinion I guess. Everyone has to eat at a theme park, so why not make that part of the experience? << I get that. That's fine, but as much as they're touting the fact that they're adding "Beast's Castle" to the FL skyline the could have added a WDW-exclusive BATB dark ride to go with it. I do realize they have included a "storytime with Belle" live thing, but to me it sounds like a snoozer that will probably not be open half the time anyway. >>More underwhelming than Snow White?<< Hmm.....yeah actually it looks that way to me, chalk it up to personal taste I guess. But it's certainly no LESS underwhelming. it still all comes down to the fact that some of us still expect better from Disney. I know by now we SHOULDN'T but we still do. And meanwhile the MK is still the most visited amusement park in the world...
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom << I seem to recall that much fanfare was made about Harry Potter’s shops and restaurants when Wizarding World opened. Why is this any different>> Because there are already about 5 restaurants permantly closed in the MK already. WDW management could have easily taken any one of those restaurants and redo them to a Beast theme. The bathrooms, eating facilities are already in place. There is no good reason why one of the preexisting restaurants couldn't have been revamped. What are they trying to do? Turn Fantasyland into another World Showcase, where you can't take 20 steps without colliding with yet another restaurant. <<More underwhelming than Snow White? Seems to me this is a huge step up from that attraction.>> I'm glad they are building a Little Mermaid ride. But honestly, when your spending the money WDW is to build that ride you would think it would have a longer track than it does. My questions is which one has the longer track, Snow White or the Little Mermaid? My money is on Snow White. Space isn't an issue in the MK, the Little Mermaid ride could easily have been twice as long. <<Huh? The promo video shows at least one show scene in a mine with the Dwarfs.>> I'm glad they are building a dwarf mine train ride, but as said earlier it doesn't make up for taking out Snow White. In the MK you don't have to loose a ride to gain another. Plus, the dwarf coaster doesn't motivate me to make a to make a trip to WDW. I am not the intended target audience for the FLE. At Unis Potterland everyone is the target audience. <<Well it is Fantasyland right, and Dumbo is an iconic attraction. Do you have something against Dumbo? >> I have never riden Dumbo in any Disney park. Moving it to a location where I can get great views of a warehouse accross the tracks instead of Cinderella castle's views certainly isn't going to motivate me to ride it now. << Disney Parks jumped the shark on selling junk in their stores decades ago. I don’t even bother shopping at the parks anymore.>> Agreed!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Oh c'mon, you're nit-picking. That whizzes y so fast it must last all of, what, 2 or 3 seconds on a ride that lasts 2 minutes or so? If you're gonna call it a "mine train" it ought to be in the mine, don'tcha think?" You said the Dwarfs weren't there and they are.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Hans, I believe the Defenders of Mediocrity line was a direct response to this >>>Man, you Disney Purists live in a world of your own. What color is the sky in your world??<<< I think Dean was just fighting rant with rant.>> I didn't think my comment was a rant and I didn't think oc_deans comment was a rant either. Just a nostalgic reenactment of the good old days when the Spirit hung out here. ;-)
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Is this the best that Disney can do?<<< That's a good question. Aesthetically? I think that yes, this might look the part. In terms of being dynamic? New? Revolutionary? Far from it. In terms of bringing something NEEDED to the MK? Only in the smallest sense of the word. I could say the same thing about Carsland and Buena Vista Street, too.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I honestly don't have an issue with the expansion per se. IF Disney had been a) Keeping the MK in top notch condition all along b) Had been doing additions to the park on a regular basis c) Not cut back on things like closed restaurants and things like cutting Country Bear Christmas. THEN this expansion would have been a nice addition to a great park. I guess really the problem is me. I no longer have small children and it seems that Disney has decided that the MK is the place for families with small children
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I love Dean. We've been on these boards together for years, and often agree, and sometimes disagree. We are always civil to one another. However, I found his "defender of mediocrity" comment offensive sense it implies that whoever doesn't agree with him falls in that category.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<However, I found his "defender of mediocrity" comment offensive sense it implies that whoever doesn't agree with him falls in that category.>> I really thought it was a nod to the dearly departed (from LP) Spirit. That was his favorite term in the whole world! Well, that and "Wal-Marting"....
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Matter of opinion I guess. Everyone has to eat at a theme park, so why not make that part of the experience? I happen to look forward to dining in unique restaurants at Disney parks, so the Beast’s restaurant is actually just as much of an attraction for me as Snow White. I seem to recall that much fanfare was made about Harry Potter’s shops and restaurants when Wizarding World opened. Why is this any different?" I love Dining in Disney parks too, sadly in WDW it isnt easy. On my last trip to WDW i knew less than 2 months in advance i was going and of course didnt get the dining choices i wanted. I will probably never know 6 months in advance if i were visiting WDW, so would probably wouldnt be able to ever step foot in the new Restaurant.
