Originally Posted By jonvn "Ah, so that's a yes right ." Actually, it's a non-answer. That says a lot. There is a good chance this individual has never even been to the place, given some of the statements made.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher ^ That merely confirms my suspicions of the accuracy and objectivity of your perceptions of reality (for example, the mediocrity of DCA). In other words, not too good, not too reliable.
Originally Posted By jonvn More non-answer. OK, so it's becoming obvious that one of the most vocal anti-DCA people have never even been there. I've often said that the savaging the place has gotten is less actual criticism than it is a sounding board for the inner demons of those who really go after it. I think we found the poster child.
Originally Posted By Nobody So, my understanding is that disneywatcher is implying that it should be obvious to anybody that stumbles upon this site that ha/she has been to DCA. It is weird that this person has spent so many posts dancing around what could have been an easy one word post. But keep in mind that if an anonymous poster answers yes or no, it's up to you to believe them or not.
Originally Posted By Mr X **To be as vocally against the park it would add more credibility if you had actually been there.** I never understood this particular philosophy. It's akin to saying you can't comment on a major league game you watched on TV because you didn't actually have tickets. I can sort of understand the argument as it pertains to certain rides (Pooh in Tokyo, Soarin, Spiderman...all good examples), but for a whole park? There's more than enough info, pictures, and video on the internet to give anyone a pretty clear picture of what is being offered. I kept saying this back in 2001, but the fact is I don't have to go to Baghdad to know I wouldn't like the place. Likewise, I'm almost POSITIVE that I would like Maui, even though I've never been there. I COULD be wrong, but probably not (in both cases). And as for DCA, no surprises there (except that yes, I found Soarin to be very nice but everyone was raving about it so it wasn't some sort of a shock)...and Hong Kong Disneyland? Heck, it was WORSE than I expected from the pics and videos.
Originally Posted By jonvn The reasoning is that if someone is telling you how terrible something is, you would have an expectation of them actually going. You can comment on a game you saw on TV, because you actually saw it. If you start commenting on a game you never saw, that's going to be considered rather odd, wouldn't you think? "Heck, it was WORSE than I expected from the pics and videos." Yes, but at least you went and saw it.
Originally Posted By jonvn "^ Seek psychological help!" Interesting suggestion since it hasn't seemed to help you any.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But keep in mind that if an anonymous poster answers yes or no, it's up to you to believe them or not." Given several statements by this person, it strikes me they've never stepped foot in the place. Of course I have no idea for sure, but a lot of what is said just shows a basic lack of knowledge of the place that someone who has gone there even once would have. That's why this question came up in the first place. Statements made that just were so out of sync with what was actually in the park, like it or hate it, that really makes it hard to believe that the person ever walked into the place. But who knows. A simple "yes," is easy enough, and yet not forthcoming.
Originally Posted By berol It's a logic fallacy, arguing against the person instead of the argument. I forget what the term for it is. My fave example is "you have to be murdered to have an opinion on it."
Originally Posted By jonvn It's not a logical fallacy. If someone is giving their opinion of something, to the point of saying specific things are good or not, then it is reasonable to expect them to actually have seen it. For example, the Soap Opera Bistro, which this poster has railed against for a very long time, and was never in. As far as the opinion of murder goes, you don't have to be murdered to feel the effects of it. A murder is not just a crime against a single person, it is a crime against the entire community. Take for an example a movie reviewer. You read movie reviews in the newspaper. You would expect the person writing the review to have actually seen the movie. If they have not, what good is the review? How can it be of any value whatsoever? Things just don't work that way.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney LOL, this is becoming a fun thread . Its almost like DW is a politician and someone is asking him if he's Gay ;D. DW, seriously, I have NO clue how all of this started, but I think a simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice. Like I said, I don't it matters THAT much in the end for the simple fact that you definitely know enough about the place to know if you would like it or not. And although SuperDry's analogy certainly has weight, I actually see it a little differently. IF I saw the first SAW movie at least, consider myself a 'fan' of the series I would be a better position to comment on the others, saw them or not. You're obviously a fan, you KNOW what you like in these parks and don't and like its been said, thanks to the internet, people now can experience this park and others in a virtual sense now. I mean, we ALL know what's in PP. We ALL seen the video of Soarin, seen video of the shows, a complete of the park so on and so on. YES, obviously its different being there, you can never compare it to that experience, but to your opinion on it, why not?? Like Mr. X said, we don't need to go to Baghdad to know if we are going to like it or not. There is SOO much information out there now, especially for places like this.
Originally Posted By jonvn "we don't need to go to Baghdad to know if we are going to like it or not" Baghdad is a war zone. Everyone knows what a war zone is. "thanks to the internet, people now can experience this park and others in a virtual sense now" That is nothing like actually going. "you can never compare it to that experience, but to your opinion on it, why not??" For one thing, because we have someone who tells other people they are not fit to judge the place because they like mediocrity, when they have been there, and this person presumably has not. Secondly, these posts are all based in ignorance. People have all kinds of opinions on things. Some people have gone to the place and have said "It wasn't as bad as I've heard." A lot of people have. So, it's really a valueless to have an opinion on an entertainment without knowing what it is, or how it is presented. Lastly, it is not a little bit disturbing when someone who apparently has no clue as to what a park offers or does not offer is so venomous in their denouncement of the place, and anyone who dares express any sort of positive comment about it. That is seriously odd behavior, and indicates that it's not really the park that has a problem.
Originally Posted By berol I looked it up. It's ad hominem. Ad ignorantiam would only work against a non-visitor if they had never seen pictures, videos or descriptions of it. I get a kick out of how close that is to 'ad ignoramus.' People affected by murder don't get the full effect of being murdered. (sorry to those who have been affected and don't appreciate this)
Originally Posted By bean I have not read the whole thread so maybe it has been said already but as of now the attractions being removed are 1)Malboomer 2)jumping Jellyfish 3)ss rusttworthy 4)golden dreams 5)muppets the golden zephyr is destined to be relocated. The orange stinger is not going anywhere, There are plans to retheme it. Mullholland Madness will be the one attraction everyone hoped it would go away but there are concerns with operations and the attraction count dropping way to much during construction so at the moment it will just be retheme and be the one attraction out of place. Burger Invasion and Pizza Oom mow mow will be closed and part of that area turned into a new eatery and beer garden which wil also have a large themed stage for live music and acts. (no character shows) The area used by maliboomer and surrounding area will be a site for a future thrill attraction. The Chinese restaurant in the warf will be re-opened with a new facility. Boudin and Mission tortilla is going nowhere. Ariels Grotto and the surrounding treasures in Paradise will get additional work to match the rest f the detailed buildings in the pier. Ariel's Grotto will have its eating facility enclosed. It will give the outside eating area a more detailed and victorian look and perfect area for watching "World of Color" without getting wet. Eventually there are plans to add evenmore attractions between Mullholland and Little Mermaid.
Originally Posted By jonvn "It's ad hominem." Lord no.... It's not ad hominem. That means "To the person." That would be something like "This person is an idiot, so his opinions don't matter." That's not what is being said. Although you may surmise the person is an idiot for saying things in this manner, that is not a justification for dismissing their statement. "People affected by murder don't get the full effect of being murdered." Have yourself a child murdered, and see how you feel about it.
Originally Posted By jonvn "beer garden which wil also have a large themed stage for live music and acts. (no character shows)" Good. One thing so far. Probably not a good idea to have a bunch of dancing cartoon characters in front of a crowd of drunks. It would get violent. "The area used by maliboomer and surrounding area will be a site for a future thrill attraction." So they are taking it out and replacing it with nothing for now? Great. "The Chinese restaurant in the warf will be re-opened with a new facility." I have never once seen this thing open.
Originally Posted By berol At best, it's failed ad ignorantiam. I can form some sort of opinion without going, like the power lines should go or they're putting in too many cartoon rides. "Have yourself a child murdered, and see how you feel about it." I was giving an example of something fallacious.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney "thanks to the internet, people now can experience this park and others in a virtual sense now" <<That is nothing like actually going.>> Yes, I know that, my point is you know what you like, you know what you don't, the information is there. I don't need to experience FFF to know its not for me. I don't need to ride Screamin to know it IS for me . All I'm saying is we do this ALL the time. You basically have made up your mind all the cartoon stuff that is coming to DCA is simply NOT for you even though the stuff hasn't built and most of is years away to truly judge it, but here we are. People are arguing over a TURNSTYLE on another thread. The thing simply push through to confirm your ticket and go INSIDE the park lol. I mean this is the stuff that makes mssg boards live and breath. DCA has been open for years now, people have already made up their minds if its the kind of park that is for them or not. It's all but certain we were talking about Sixx Flaggs Magic Mountain everyone would have weighed in what they think of the place even if they never been and I'm MORE than sure everyone has given their opinion of a Disney park they have not seen or ever been to countless times. I'll say it again, yes its more credible when you actually been there, but it doesn't mean your opinion is any less valid. If THAT's the case, why comment on anything, including all these future additions we are talking about now? If EVERY comment is, 'you can't judge it until you experience it, it opened and etc, then these boards would dry up veeery quickly!
