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Originally Posted By jonvn Nobody won. Hezbolah got the snot beaten out of them, but Israel didn't get back the soldiers. A lot of people lost, though.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Hezbollah has won and the libs who are running Israel are to blame. ... >>> Has anyone figured out where this is coming from?
Originally Posted By patrickegan No Arab army has ever stood up like this against the IDF. Who knows maybe their playing possum saving it up to go nuts on Iran! It’s not everyday you have to deal with the Fourth Reich! I like Hezbos, that’s funny.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <a href="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/08/foreign_policy_realists.html" target="_blank">http://www.realclearpolitics.c om/articles/2006/08/foreign_policy_realists.html</a> <<<The Triumph of Unrealism By George Will WASHINGTON -- Five weeks have passed since the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers provoked Israel to launch its most unsatisfactory military operation in 58 years. What problem has been solved, or even ameliorated? Hezbollah, often using World War II-vintage rockets, has demonstrated the inadequacy of Israel's policy of unilateral disengagement -- from Lebanon, Gaza, much of the West Bank -- behind a fence. Hezbollah has willingly suffered (temporary) military diminution in exchange for enormous political enlargement. Hitherto, Hezbollah in Lebanon was a "state within a state.'' Henceforth, the Lebanese state may be an appendage of Hezbollah, as the collapsing Palestinian Authority is an appendage of the terrorist organization Hamas. Hezbollah is an army that, having frustrated the regional superpower, suddenly embodies, as no Arab state ever has, Arab valor vindicated in combat with Israel. Only twice in the U.N.'s six decades has it authorized the use of substantial force -- in 1950 regarding Korea and 1990 regarding Kuwait. It still has not authorized force in Lebanon. What is being called a "cease-fire'' resolution calls for Israel to stop all "offensive'' operations. Israel, however, reasonably says that its entire effort is defensive. The resolution calls for Hezbollah to stop "all attacks.'' The U.N., however, has twice resolved that Hezbollah should be disarmed, yet has not willed the means to that end. Regarding force now, the U.N. merely "expresses its intention to consider in a later resolution further enhancements'' of the U.N. force that for 28 years has been loitering without serious intent in south Lebanon. The "new Middle East,'' the "birth pangs'' of which we supposedly are witnessing, reflects the region's oldest tradition, the tribalism that preceded nations. The faux and disintegrating nation of Iraq, from which the middle class, the hope of stability, is fleeing, has experienced in these five weeks many more violent deaths than have occurred in Lebanon and Israel. U.S. Gen. George Casey says 60 percent of Iraqis recently killed are victims of Shiite death squads. Some are associated with the Shiite-controlled Interior Ministry, which resembles a terrorist organization. The London plot against civil aviation confirmed a theme of an illuminating new book, Lawrence Wright's "The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11.'' The theme is that better law enforcement, which probably could have prevented 9/11, is central to combating terrorism. F-16s are not useful tools against terrorism that issues from places such as Hamburg (where Mohamed Atta lived before dying in the North Tower of the World Trade Center) and High Wycombe, England. Cooperation between Pakistani and British law enforcement (the British draw upon useful experience combating IRA terrorism) has validated John Kerry's belief (as paraphrased by The New York Times Magazine of Oct. 10, 2004) that "many of the interdiction tactics that cripple drug lords, including governments working jointly to share intelligence, patrol borders and force banks to identify suspicious customers, can also be some of the most useful tools in the war on terror.'' In a candidates debate in South Carolina (Jan. 29, 2004), Kerry said that although the war on terror will be "occasionally military,'' it is "primarily an intelligence and law enforcement operation that requires cooperation around the world.'' Immediately after the London plot was disrupted, a "senior administration official,'' insisting on anonymity for his or her splenetic words, denied the obvious, that Kerry had a point. The official told The Weekly Standard: "The idea that the jihadists would all be peaceful, warm, loveable, God-fearing people if it weren't for U.S. policies strikes me as not a valid idea. (Democrats) do not have the understanding or the commitment to take on these forces. It's like John Kerry. The law enforcement approach doesn't work.'' This farrago of caricature and non sequitur makes the administration seem eager to repel all but the delusional. But perhaps such rhetoric reflects the intellectual contortions required to sustain the illusion that the war in Iraq is central to the war on terrorism, and that the war, unlike "the law enforcement approach,'' does "work.'' The official is correct that it is wrong "to think that somehow we are responsible -- that the actions of the jihadists are justified by U.S. policies.'' But few outside the fog of paranoia that is the blogosphere think like that. It is more dismaying that someone at the center of government considers it clever to talk like that. It is the language of foreign policy -- and domestic politics -- unrealism. Foreign policy "realists'' considered Middle East stability the goal. The realists' critics, who regard realism as reprehensibly unambitious, considered stability the problem. That problem has been solved.>>>
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, at this point they are all losers. But, I have a feeling that halftime will be over pretty quickly and the game will resume.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <a href="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/08/olmerts_war_and_the_next_one.html" target="_blank">http://www.realclearpolitics.c om/articles/2006/08/olmerts_war_and_the_next_one.html</a> <<<Olmert's War, and the Next One By Patrick Buchanan When Israel answered the Hezbollah raid that captured two soldiers with air strikes on Lebanon's airport, runways, gas stations, lighthouses, bridges, buses, apartment houses and power plants, we who questioned the wisdom and morality of what Israel was doing were denounced as anti-Israel or anti-Semitic. Turns out we were right. In private, even Israeli army generals were raging that Israel was fighting a stupid, losing war. Ehud Olmert, who gave Chief of Staff Dan Halutz the green light to launch the shock-and-awe air campaign, cannot survive the moral, political and strategic disaster his country has suffered. While the Israeli Air Force was hammering Lebanon, Hezbollah rained down 3,000 rockets on Israel and fought off pinprick raids. When the Israeli army, after a month, moved in force against the real enemy, Hezbollah, Israel had already suffered irreparable damage to its reputation as a fighting nation and a moral country. As the war began, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Bahrain all condemned Hezbollah, as did the Beirut government, for inciting the war. But with Hezbollah's defiant resistance, as Israel smashed up Lebanon, the Arab street rallied to Nasrallah. Arab regimes followed. The losers? Lebanon, which suffered 800 dead, thousands injured and 1 million made refugees, saw its infrastructure destroyed and nation set back 20 years. If the government falls or Lebanon becomes a failed state, it will be an even greater calamity for the Lebanese, and for Israel and the Middle East. For the mightiest political and military force in Lebanon, and likely heir apparent to power slipping away from Prime Minister Siniora, is now Hezbollah and Hassan Nasrallah. Says Walid Jumblatt, savage critic of Hezbollah and its Syrian alliance, "Hassan Nasrallah has won militarily and politically, and has become a new leader like Nasser." Another loser is Israel, and Olmert, who seized on the border skirmish to launch his Lebanon war. Writes Ari Shavit of Ha'aretz: "Chutzpah has its limits. You cannot lead an entire nation to war promising victory, produce humiliating defeats and remain in power. You cannot bury 120 Israelis in cemeteries, keep a million Israelis in shelters for a month, wear down deterrent power, bring the next war very close and then say, oops, I made a mistake." Olmert and Halutz are history. The Kadima Party regime will fall. Left and right are already tearing at its flanks. What does this mean? The Sharon-Olmert policy of unilateral withdrawal from the territories is dead. The Hamas-led Palestinian authority, the creation of the freest and fairest elections ever held in Palestine, is on a death watch, after Israel's starvation blockade and ravaging of the Gaza Strip, which has left 150 Palestinians dead. A new Israeli regime will not withdraw from any more land, nor shut down any more settlements, nor vacate any part of Jerusalem, nor negotiate with a Palestinian Authority led by Hamas, or by a PLO that is unable to disarm Hamas. We are at dead end, as George W. Bush will not push the Israelis to do anything, nor will Congress. America is another loser. The United States knew in advance Israel planned to attack and, if possible, destroy Hezbollah. And America approved. But when Olmert launched an air war on Lebanon, instead, Bush cheered him on, refused to rein in attacks on civilian targets, sent smart bombs and used U.S. influence at the United Nations to block an early ceasefire. Bush-Cheney are thus morally and politically culpable for what was done to Lebanon and the democratic government there that was born of a "Cedar Revolution" George Bush himself had championed. Congress poodled alone with Bush, so Bush will not be called to account, as he would be were any other nation but Israel involved. From Morocco to the Gulf, there is probably not a country today that would welcome Bush, or where he would be safe on a state visit. Where does this leave us? With Israel's failure to achieve its strategic objectives in Lebanon and America having failed to attain its strategic objectives in Iraq, Nasrallah emerges triumphant, and Syria and Iran emerge unscathed and gloating. What comes next? That is obvious. With our War Party discredited by the failed policies it cheered on in Lebanon and Iraq, there will come a clamor that Bush must "go to the source" of all our difficultly -- Iran. Only thus can the War Party redeem itself for having pushed us and Israel into two unnecessary and ruinous wars. And the drumbeat for war on Iran has already begun. "(T)he dangers continue to mount abroad," wails The Weekly Standard in its lead editorial. "How Bush deals with Ahmadinejad's terror-supporting and nuclear-weapons pursuing Iran will be the test" of his administration. Yes, the supreme test. Bush is on notice from the neocons and War Party that have all but destroyed his presidency: Either you take down Iran, Mr. Bush, or you are a failed president. If the president is still listening to these people, Lord help the Republic.>>>
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/15/mideast.main/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/ meast/08/15/mideast.main/index.html</a> <<<Lebanon truce holds despite clashes Israelis begin pullout as Lebanese, U.N. forces prepare to deploy Tuesday, August 15, 2006; Posted: 8:08 a.m. EDT (12:08 GMT) Israeli troops return to Israel from Lebanon on Tuesday. Image: Save on All Your Calls with Vonage Save 50% on your bill with Vonage unlimited local/long distance -... www.vonage.com Refinance with Bad Credit Compare up to 4 free quotes. Serious refinance requests only. www.homeloanhelpline.com Bad Credit Refinance Up to 4 quotes with 1 form. Serious refinance inquiries only please. www.nextag.com More Useful Links • Baby Registry • Discount Travel • Theater Tickets WATCH Browse/Search Lebanese return to ruins (2:29) Bush: Hezbollah 'suffered defeat' 40) RELATED Gallery: Cease-fire called • Bush: Hezbollah suffered a defeat • TIME.com: The chic sheik • Timeline: Israel-Lebanon conflict • What U.N. Resolution 1701 says YOUR E-MAIL ALERTS Israel Lebanon Hezbollah United Nations or Create Your Own Manage Alerts | What Is This? TYRE, Lebanon (CNN) -- A tense, tenuous cease-fire between Israeli troops and Hezbollah militants appeared to be holding early Tuesday despite a number of clashes and mortars fired inside southern Lebanon. The Israeli military already has begun to leave the area, a Defense Ministry official said. The troops began their pullout late Monday, with the pace expected to accelerate Tuesday, according to the Israel Defense Forces. The official said Lebanese army and U.N. forces will be deployed in southern Lebanon "in the coming days," freeing the Israeli army to complete its withdrawal. The official wouldn't give a more precise timeline for the redeployment, citing "operational reasons." About four mortar rounds were fired inside southern Lebanon after the cease-fire, which went into effect early Monday, according to the IDF. But none hit Israeli territory, and Israel decided not to respond, the IDF said. (Watch tensions remain as cease-fire begins -- 1:09) Minor clashes between Hezbollah fighters and Israeli soldiers also occurred, and at least six Hezbollah militants were reported killed. Meanwhile, thousands of Lebanese displaced by the 34-day conflict clogged southbound roads, trying to return home despite warnings from the Israeli military that it was not safe yet. (Watch Lebanese return to ruins -- 2:29) Highways were packed with these civilians, driving through bomb craters with mattresses piled high on their cars. The monthlong fighting displaced 850,000 people, Lebanese officials said. Video footage showed one man kissing the ground as he returned home. Some took advantage of a newly repaired bridge over the Litani River, just north of the coastal city of Tyre. The repairs also sped the arrival of humanitarian aid. Exploding ammunition that had been left over from the conflict killed two people and wounded nine others, Lebanese civil defense officials said. But there was no quick return northward in Israel, where 1 million people fled their homes for shelter in the south. U.N. troops expanded their presence in southern Lebanon as the Israelis began to leave, said a spokesman for the world body's peacekeeping forces known as UNIFIL, or U.N. Interim Forces in Lebanon. Spokesman Milos Strugar said U.N. troops are patrolling day and night and will grow in number. They have begun de-mining the area and disposing of unexploded ordnance. Hours after the cease-fire took effect, senior military representatives from the Lebanese and Israeli armies met separately with the head of U.N. forces to discuss how to implement the agreement, according to a U.N. statement. The Lebanese army plans to deploy 15,000 troops into southern Lebanon, and UNIFIL will be expanded from 2,000 to 15,000. Nouhad Mahmoud, Lebanon's special envoy to the United Nations, said his country's forces should begin moving into areas south of the Litani by the week's end. As part of the U.N.-brokered cease-fire agreement, Israel agreed to stop offensive military operations and, once the combined Lebanese-international force is in place, withdraw its forces from the region of Lebanon south of the Litani. In return, Hezbollah is to disarm south of the river. However, the looming question is whether Hezbollah will comply with the U.N. demand that it disarm completely. Both sides claim victory In a TV address Monday night, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah gave mixed signals on disarmament. While saying he was willing to discuss the issue, he also said he does not believe Lebanese troops are yet capable of defending the country. "Some people say that disarming the resistance is an essential condition to building a strong government, and I say the opposite," Nasrallah said. (Full story) After Nasrallah's speech, celebratory gunfire and fireworks echoed throughout the capital of Beirut. (Watch returning refugees declare Hezbollah the victor -- 1:47) In a speech Monday to Israel's Knesset, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert made it clear that if Hezbollah does not disarm, Israel will continue with what he termed "a long, hard, arduous, complex fight." (Full story) Olmert also said he was appointing Ofer Dekel, former deputy head of Israel's security service, to lead efforts to secure the release of two soldiers Hezbollah captured in a July 12 cross-border raid. That attack ignited the conflict, and the cease-fire agreement calls on Hezbollah to return the soldiers. President Bush blamed Hezbollah, and its supporters in Iran and Syria, for the war, which he said was "part of a broader struggle between freedom and terror." (Full story) Israel, Lebanon count their dead The conflict resulted in 908 Lebanese and 159 Israeli deaths, authorities said Monday. Forty-one civilians died in Hezbollah rocket attacks on northern Israel, and more than 1,000 Israelis were wounded, including 600 civilians, according to the IDF. Nearly 4,000 Hezbollah rockets rained down on northern Israel in the conflict, Israeli police said. Lebanon's security forces reported 3,877 wounded since Israel began its military campaign.>>>
Originally Posted By jonvn For god's sake, just put in a couple lines of text saying what it says, and put in a link. You've even quoted a telephone ad in there. It's unreadable.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Save on All Your Calls with Vonage Save 50% on your bill with Vonage unlimited local/long distance -... www.vonage.com Refinance with Bad Credit" Only liberals would use Vonage! We all know they have bad credit! It's why they're atheistic baby beaters! They use commie phone companies and shoot kittens! Only REAL Americans use Sprint! Damn liberals and their 50% off. 50% off what??? Patriotism, that's what! With Sprint, the government AUTOMATICALLY gets to listen in on every call! It's for your own good! Hey libs, go lose at poker, why don't ya! I have to go have a stroke......
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Obviously, you are jealous of my writing ability, and how i can go on for pages without even trying. Page after page of babbling that you, like bush can't do. So, instead you paste in those who can babble like me. Of course the difference is someone pays them to say what they say. If the networks don't like what george will says, he will be removed. So far, they have just put the ignorant insulting, and interrupting fellow from some arab country, to sit in, and interrupt george will's commentary whenever he gets to good and truthful. Lately, everyone has been going through spiritual experiences, and george will is no acception. Even though he is conservative, and might call himself a republican, he really is not a republican. George will is too honest to be called a republican anymore.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"Save on All Your Calls with Vonage Save 50% on your bill with Vonage unlimited local/long distance -... www.vonage.com Refinance with Bad Credit" Only liberals would use Vonage! We all know they have bad credit! It's why they're atheistic baby beaters! They use commie phone companies and shoot kittens! Only REAL Americans use Sprint! Damn liberals and their 50% off. 50% off what??? Patriotism, that's what! With Sprint, the government AUTOMATICALLY gets to listen in on every call! It's for your own good! Hey libs, go lose at poker, why don't ya! I have to go have a stroke< hang inthere SPP- calling 911 -- too much W/E for you .. LOL !
Originally Posted By YourPalEd No one won, maybe... but i have come up with a solution. Let's move israel. That's right let's move israel to arizona. Heck arizona is in america, and arizonians are friendly and more than willing to share their desert with the israeli's. I'm sure there are great expanses of sand and limestone they will be willing to give, or sell, to the israeli's for cheap. Think of all the advantages to america. We will save a fortune in gas costs shipping our missiles over to the mideast. Instead we just stick them on a truck, and take, i think it's the 4 freeway, to the 10. Of course, texas probably would be pretty similar to the middle east. They might like texas. I also think the israel people should be the ones to move, since they are already so good at it. I mean aren't there 6 or 5 tribes of israel and they've all been treking and camping out for thousands of years or something. Arizona, move israel to arizona. Heck even triple the size, and give them a dam and a river.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd We can move the wailing wall there, and put it next to the london bridge.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Here is a link to an ex IDF military guy who has a blog. I have emailed him a few times, this guy is a stud. He says Israel lost and the PM is a joke who needs to go. <a href="http://www.yonitheblogger.com/" target="_blank">http://www.yonitheblogger.com/</a>
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Do you think israel lost? I think peace could hold for a while. You got the UN in numbers, and that is not your mothers UN. This UN of 14,000 or so has every nation involved, so if one or the other side shoots a bomb, you will have a lot of angry, bigger nations, coming for you. Hopefully the situation will go back to just the occassional kidnappings like it had been for 10 years, under sharon.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Every Muslim in the world is claming victory now. The Hezbos get to keep their weapons, their leader in a towel gets Bin Laden rock star status, and Israel is now in more danger than ever because the Muslims feel emboldened. It is a disaster for Israel and America at this point. Israel had a chance to crush the Hezbos. Iran and Syria were next so we hoped. Now we have turned the war over to French troops? WTH?
Originally Posted By YourPalEd I do not think they feel that emboldened. There is a lot of rubble they still have to pick up. They are just angry and cursing their suffering. If they want to claim victory, fine, as long as people stop killing themselves for no real purpose.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Thing is Ed, the Hezbos started it. Any and all deaths are their fault. Who ever said it was half time on this thread had it right. I just can't see Israel leaving it like this. Time to get a new PM for Israel.
