Originally Posted By Lee hisownself >>Maybe the moderators here noticed some of the extreme libel in that thread.<< Replace the word "moderators" with the word "Disney" and the word "libel" with the word "truth." Now you're on the right track. Viva la resistance! ~GFC~
Originally Posted By WDWVacationer It could be truth, but much of it was speculation... Though I know there was some hard hitting truth, so I suppose Disney could have taken note.
Originally Posted By ReelJustice <<Maybe the moderators here noticed some of the extreme libel in that thread.>> SMH
Originally Posted By WDWVacationer <<SMH>> Sorry to disappoint you. But there was some libel in there; mixed, however, with large truths.
Originally Posted By ChiMike This is just my opinion, but I'd rather use this topic to keep talking about Social Media developments. The old thread was closed. I think it says a LOT that posts were not deleted or the thread was not removed. That is to Laughingplace's CREDIT. If Laughingplace thought the line was crossed on defamation, then it is their right to think that. I'd rather say, "Thank you very much" for a wonderful 1100 post thread and continue talking about Disney's future attempts at Social Media, rather than talking about the 'process' of laughingplace.com.
Originally Posted By Doobie I let that thread go for a long time but ultimately I decided to close it. Believe what you will about "heat" but no one from Disney or anywhere else asked that I do anything about it. That said - I do have a problem with any personal attacks against any other websites or anyone within the Disney company. It was a mistake to let it go as long as I did in that topic. I don't care if you want to discuss the topic but I do have a problem with the severe personal attacks on specific people's motivations in and out of the company. If you insist on having that debate again, you're welcome to do it somewhere else but it's not what I want on this website. Doobie.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>Maybe the moderators here noticed some of the extreme libel in that thread.<< Not that if people were just commenting on what bloggers and social media people are actually DOING.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Understood, Doobie. Thanks for clearing that up. >>>It could be truth, but much of it was speculation...<<< What was speculation? That Papi Manny has a whole cottage industry of promotion? That Disney Fan sites keep a positive view of the company because they are comped? That Disney fans generally only want to hear positive, pixie dusted news through the blog that is regulated heavily so that the Mouse can control the message? ALL of that are observations on events. I don't see any guess work in there.
Originally Posted By Doobie <<< That Disney Fan sites keep a positive view of the company because they are comped? >>> That is guess work. I'm sure some do, I'm sure some don't. Movie reviewers are comped and no one question's their ability to be honest. I think most people who bother to start a Disney fan site (including myself) already have a positive view of the company or they wouldn't bother. Questioning reviews when stuff is comped is as old a practice as reviewing. Why think anything new or novel is going on here? Some people perhaps are compromised. But most people who bother to spend hours every week writing about Disney actually do like what they're writing about. Otherwise they'd be writing about something else.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>That is guess work. I'm sure some do, I'm sure some don't. Movie reviewers are comped and no one question's their ability to be honest. I think most people who bother to start a Disney fan site (including myself) already have a positive view of the company or they wouldn't bother. Questioning reviews when stuff is comped is as old a practice as reviewing. Why think anything new or novel is going on here? Some people perhaps are compromised. But most people who bother to spend hours every week writing about Disney actually do like what they're writing about. Otherwise they'd be writing about something else.<<< Well, of course. And I don't doubt or mean any disrespect against this site, the ability to post conflicting view points, and STRONG ones, are a major credit to this place. However... There are sites and webmasters that are HABITUALLY positive for the company, no matter what the deal is. If you differ from that opinion, you are run out or banned. If you disagree with the person, the "Disney-ier than thou" attitude is taken. It would be guess work if I named names, but I'm not about to do that. However, it is a OBSERVATION (and one only) that this practice is common in the Disney community online. And of course other reviewers for movies and hotels are "compromised"... but they usually give a fair review. Pros and cons. It is very rare that we get something like that on a Disney site, of all things.
Originally Posted By Doobie I didn't take it personally so don't worry about that. I actually don't post alot of my own opinion on this site at all - positive or negative. An occasional article but most of my opinion I give on the podcast. <<< However... There are sites and webmasters that are HABITUALLY positive for the company, no matter what the deal is. If you differ from that opinion, you are run out or banned. If you disagree with the person, the "Disney-ier than thou" attitude is taken. >>> I have no reason to doubt you and am not here to defend any other website (other than protect them from personal attacks here). But I would say - even if that's accurate - your reasons why they do that may not be accurate. After all, while being comped by Disney is nice and sometimes even necessary, if the site is a for-profit operation, that's an even stronger motivation. And where do you think advertisers (most of whom are selling Disney travel or other related products) would rather spend their money? On a site that's always critical of what Disney's doing or a site that presents a generally positive view? I'm not saying that's a good reason for dishonesty. But putting it all on Disney trying to buy good pub and fansites being all to eager to give it is just way too simplistic. And frankly, some people just prefer to try to maintain a positive site because it's what they enjoy having. It's not like there's a shortage of places to go complain. It's their site and their right. We're not journalists here. Doobie.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<And frankly, some people just prefer to try to maintain a positive site because it's what they enjoy having. It's not like there's a shortage of places to go complain.> As much as I love me some Doobekah, I cannot agree with this statement. In the Disney Fan Universe™, "negative" sites are few and far between. The vast majority of the popular sites have a history of little to no tolerance of "Disney bashers." If you make too many statements against Disney, in the vein of Spirit's rants, you get shown the digital door. Period. The admins on the other sites will always base their decision on something completely fabricated or seriously exaggerated, like rudeness towards other posters while attempting to defend against personal attacks. Not outright attacking of other posters; those posters should be banned. But the act of simply attempting to defend one's self and/or one's negative opinion of Disney against the very personal attacks by those who defend every single action taken by Disney is usually at the heart of these admin actions. Most of these bannings at their core are for simply posting negative comments on positive boards. If you're not swimming in pixie dust on most of these other sites, you're not welcome. The fanbois hate even small doses of reality, and only want to deal with pixie dust addicts such as themselves. Your site, Doobie, is one of the rare exceptions. It allows for a healthy amount of criticism for all things Disney. Most fan sites do not, pure and simple.
Originally Posted By Doobie I'm not sure what part you're not agreeing with. I'm guessing it's that there's no shortage of places to complain. Two of the largest Disney discussion boards out there are DisBoards and MiceChat - neither is known for being positive-only. And today anyone can say anything they want with no restrictions whatsoever via Twitter, blogs, FaceBook or starting your own site. The fact that 1%, 10% or even 90% of fansites won't allow very negative discussion does not mean there's a shortage of places to discuss things critically. In my many years of doing this, however, what I've found (and I'm speaking generally here, not of anyone in these specific topics), there are some who don't want others to be able to discuss in a positive way. If someone starts a topic called "I really love X about WDW, what do you love?", in short order that topic will be taken over by posters who need to make sure these people know what's wrong with WDW, even if that doesn't interest them. I've seen that time and again over the years and I'm sure I'm not the only webmaster driven crazy by that. And some (including myself in the past) have used that as a reason to ban people. You can interpret that as restricting negative talk. I would interpret it as facilitating positive talk for those who want it. Doobie.
Originally Posted By leobloom I gave kudos to LP in the Infamous Original Social Media Thread for allowing that type of discussion to happen at all. So I'll give Doobie kudos in the Return of the Infamous Original Social Media Thread for speaking up and explaining what's going on. You can be sure that when threads disappear in the dark of night at other places there are not explanations forthcoming from the moderators. I don't fully agree with rationale behind closing the other thread. I think, in general, American society puts up with way too much defense of corporate greed and incompetence. But I am impressed LP let the thread go on as it did. I remember winning one of Doobie's Disney Trivia contests way back in the mid-1990s and receiving a "Where in Disneyland" from him in the mail. I think the guy's heart is in the right place, even if I don't fully agree with the decision to shut down the first thread. I can only imagine what Spirit thinks of all this.
Originally Posted By WDWVacationer <<What was speculation? That Papi Manny has a whole cottage industry of promotion? That Disney Fan sites keep a positive view of the company because they are comped? That Disney fans generally only want to hear positive, pixie dusted news through the blog that is regulated heavily so that the Mouse can control the message? ALL of that are observations on events. I don't see any guess work in there.>> The libel and speculation came when discussing certain people in the fan community.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<...Oh, and it proves that we are all being watched! HI DISNEY LEGAL!!!!!!!!! HOPE YOU ARE WELL!!!!!!!! >> In that case hello. I really have enjoyed your theme park in Florida, you're classic films and tv shows.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 << If someone starts a topic called "I really love X about WDW, what do you love?", in short order that topic will be taken over by posters who need to make sure these people know what's wrong with WDW, even if that doesn't interest them. I've seen that time and again over the years and I'm sure I'm not the only webmaster driven crazy by that. And some (including myself in the past) have used that as a reason to ban people. You can interpret that as restricting negative talk. I would interpret it as facilitating positive talk for those who want it. Doobie<< Applauding you Doobie for standing up and saying this...unfortunately after all these years it is why I wouldlike my ID deleted ( so I am not tempted to join back in every argument here.) This is/was a great site for years, however as I stated in a thread just about a week ago, one gets sick and tired of reading how everything in WDW blows..management is 100% inept, anyone who still thinks the place has any magic left is an idiot..etc. Also how DVC is the cause of the =downfall of the DIsney empire -- just read Spirit quote Lee about how some monies are diverted from the parks for DVC- of course he left out the fact that DVC also brings in more reenue than anything else in P&R..but then that would fit the bill. As for Bob P-'s comment- sorry I wouldn't give you the pleasure of going off on the topic if DVC was somehow closed off if Disney sold.. so many issues with that statement I won't even start. Doobie, as a moderator /administrator myself of a blog site for School board items ( also very emotional as it involves kids and taxes ) - I know how hard it is to run these things..and how hard it is to keep ones own opinion out of it..fwiw you do a great job that I respect. AS for those who say there'snot enough places to complain about Disney,,venture over to financial boards for Disney, you'll fit right in. Therefore Doobie, please remove my ID..and thanks for the 8+ years..it was fun but I'll be moving somewhere where the good things at WDW still have a chance to be discussed along with the issues.. that is no longer the case here. I am sure I'll take crap for 'another farewell'- however I tried all ways to go to profiles etc to remove my ID but could not find a way) - take care-
Originally Posted By Doobie We have completed your request and as of now you cannot post. If you change your mind, just email me. Doobie.
