Originally Posted By vbdad55 Agreed Nikki....it's this 'entitlement' thing where some people just feel like they're owed something from the world...just for breathing, and can justify anything they do based on that....that is the part of the overall picture that really irks me.. it's not just the 20 cents of soda, it's the attitude that one should be able to show up at the last minute nd get a premium spot in a theatre or for a parade because, well because they are them, it's the line cutting, it's the I can park in a hadnicapped spot because I'll only be a few minutes, it's the I'll run the yellow-red light while I'm on the cell phone talking to my friends about nothig, the same people who sue a cleaners for $10M in D.C. because their favorite pants were ruined, those who walk big dogs to school bus stops in the AM even when the schools say please don't (my 6 year old niece bit in the face by one 2 months ago - 3rd person dog has bit -- owner .... a city council member) - the person in the 10 items of less lane with 100 items.... all symptoms of the "i'm more important than everyone else , and the world owes me, and the rules don't apply to me because generation............. there is an excuse for everything.... if that makes me a curmudgeon, so be it.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I keep hearing the talking heads tell me how we're the most compassionate nation on earth, but I don't see it. I guess they exist in a different dimension than the Spirit does. << I truly believe in my heart that if we are not the most compassionate nation on earth, we are close to it. Take a look at all the good charitable work that goes on in this country. Look at the people not the politicians. Things will change in a year and a half. Who knows, maybe before then.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden A few weeks ago, there was a party in Haddonfield, NJ that got WAAAY out of hand. Underage drinking, theft, damage to property. I've been to my share of parties, even hosted a few, and what went on was shocking. There were 15-20 kids who were the culprits. Do you think their parents made them work to pay off the damage, return the stolen property, or at the least apologize? No, they all went out and hired lawyers and are planning to fight tooth and nail to make sure their precious kids don't get in any trouble. I shudder to think what these kids will be like when they move out of mommy and daddy's house and the rest of us have to deal with them.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 /// Underage drinking, theft, damage to property./// If you call that ///shocking/// I would have to say that you live a very shelterd life. When I was in high school that stuff was common place, well at least the drinking part anyway. And as for the lawyer stuff goes since people make a big deal out of ruff housing these days then can you really blame them for trying to defend flesh and blood when people get bent out of shape so easily now. If my nephews and nieces want to want brings friends and party at my cool pad complete with a pebbled swimming pool and built in bar and a guest house for privacy if needed I say go for it just don't throw rocks at police cars, wake the neighbors, throw empty bottles and cans and hit my Cayman and if you have to use the bathroom, USE THE BATHROOM and not the carpet or rugs please. I don't play that! Anyone who pukes on my floor is out.
Originally Posted By Fe Maiden I left the shocking details out of it. But if you think using a grand piano as your own personal toilet and spraying the house with a urine filled Super Soaker is a typical teenage party in your parts, well then I'm glad I never partied with you.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 Yukkee. Now that is gross! I don't have a piano but if I did and somebody defaced it I would hang em with the piano wire and let the rest take turns playing pinata with baseball bats. What kind of guadian would allow spraying urine with a Super Soaker? Talk about no morals. If they did that in my pad I would take it from them and spray it in their faces. That is not the way to party. Better to mello out with a wine cooler or some Pacificos. Oh, and don't be bringing hard drugs to my place either. I better not see any of that or I will kick their sorry butts out so fast. I don't care what those kids do to themselves or eachother but don't deface my furnishings or bother the neighbors.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 </// Underage drinking, theft, damage to property./// If you call that ///shocking/// I would have to say that you live a very shelterd life. When I was in high school that stuff was common place, well at least the drinking part anyway. And as for the lawyer stuff goes since people make a big deal out of ruff housing these days then can you really blame them for trying to defend flesh and blood when people get bent out of shape so easily now. If my nephews and nieces want to want brings friends and party at my cool pad complete with a pebbled swimming pool and built in bar and a guest house for privacy if needed I say go for it just don't throw rocks at police cars, wake the neighbors, throw empty bottles and cans and hit my Cayman and if you have to use the bathroom, USE THE BATHROOM and not the carpet or rugs please. I don't play that! Anyone who pukes on my floor is out. < Just make sure you confiscate ALL car keys -- we had a 'cool' parent like that in the next suburb over - and 6 dead teenagers later ( all in one wreck where another decided to drive them home - yep the driver with a blood alcohol of 2.8 lived) - I am personally hoping they lose their house and freedom. Just IMHO
Originally Posted By vbdad55 p.s. -- we knew 4 of the kids very well...so I am more than a little emotional on the subject of hosting parties for underage ( you do not say if the above nieces and nephews were underage so I am not passing judgement - just stating my feelings ) drinking parties. 4 others kids at the same party these kids died from lost full - ride athletic scholarships due to violation of morality clauses in their scholarship papers -- a lot of lives ruined for one evening of boozin'
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 They are 18 and 20 so they can make their own decisions. My house is open for party and whatever they want to do is fine except like I said earlier no puking or pissing on the carpet, disturbing my neighbors and if you use the guest house for fun don't be leaving no used condoms cause I don't play that either. A few years earlier one of them got into to wine cellar and uncorked some high price items and wasted it on some of their friends who would not know good stuff from wripple. I was so angry that I almost made them pay for it. Nobody messes with my precious stash without getting my wrath!!!
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 ^^^no HARD drugs?? Booze & sex ok? If you were my neighbor and those were underage kids, I'd call the cops on you.
Originally Posted By MPierce bobbelee9 your the kind of neighbor I would like to have. I would be calling along with you.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 So you think drinking and sex is wrong??. You must be one boring person and I am glad you are not my neighbor. And like I said earlier my nephew and niece are 18 and 20. What is your problem anyway with people enjoying life. They now make their own decisions. Who are you to say that they can't decide for themselves. You are a tyrant telling adults what they can't do.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 18 year olds are adults rarely except legally -- if they have a job, are living on their own and supporting themselves...they are closer to being adults. Until that day comes, if they are 20 and living at home off of Mom and Dad, they are kids -- just IMHO. I grew up on the South Side of Chicago Lest you think I am somehow naive about the real world, but I also am not going to provide opportunities for kids to get in more trouble than they normally would, under the guise that I am OK with it. Providing a responsible role model to follow is never a bad thing. If that is tyrannical, than call me Rex.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 I hear you dad55. Remember these two are not my children and I am not responsible for them or what they do. I lovingly offer my pad to them and their clan to party all they want and that is it just as long as they don't take my car out for a spin sober or drunk or deface the joint. One time I came unglued when one of the friends got drunk and got into my clubs and started sending golfballs far far away into other's back yards and braking windows and hitting sides of houses. Yes the cops came by and they were not too amused. I can't blame them on that one. The recipients of the arrant golfballs threatend to sue me, but they didn't since broken windows are small potatoes.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 I forgot to say that I did give the pissed off distant neighbors a case of wine and a lifetime pass to use my house for entertaining so that settled them down too. As for the club swinging drunk he is not allowed over anymore. See, I have limits just like everyone else.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>18 year olds are adults rarely except legally -- if they have a job, are living on their own and supporting themselves...they are closer to being adults. Until that day comes, if they are 20 and living at home off of Mom and Dad, they are kids -- just IMHO.<< Tell that to the judge who will not hesitate to sentence them harshly (well, black 18 year olds anyway). Or the recruiter who will send them off to die. I agree, it's arbitrary. But it is the "official" age of adulthood, and so absolves Clint of any legal "corruption of minors" issues. Not sure about the alcohol though, can a person who knows of underage drinking in their house get in trouble? Yeah, probably. Not like it doesn't happen though. Frankly, I think the drinking age should be 18 anyway. Assuming they go to college, they are already drinking all they want anyway. I know I did. It was READILY available, and in fact most 21 year old students felt an obligation to make any "beer run" upon request. >>but I also am not going to provide opportunities for kids to get in more trouble than they normally would, under the guise that I am OK with it. Providing a responsible role model to follow is never a bad thing.<< One could argue that Clint is allowing (best not to say "providing", right Clint?) a place for these youngsters to do what they would have been doing anyway, perhaps in someone else's place who didn't approve, in an unsafe building, or on the street or in the woods. All of which could be considered more dangerous. Just because he allows his young relatives to hang at his place doesn't make everything they do his responsibility (they ARE over 18), nor does it mean he's allowing anything there that they wouldn't have done elsewhere anyway.
Originally Posted By ClintFlint2 ///we had a 'cool' parent like that in the next suburb over - and 6 dead I am personally hoping they lose their house and freedom./// How did I miss that one earlier?? Well anyway it won't happen to me. I am well aware of today's sue happy jerks and the attitude of today's society which says to go after everyone who did NOT get in a car and kill somebody or who had NO direct involvement in hurting somebody else like bartenders, bars and house hosts. Everyone makes their own decisions and if some dumb ass 19 year old leaves my house drunk while I'm on vacation and injures somebody else don't think about coming my way trying to extract money out of me. If your loved one gets hurt you better talk to the dumb drunk and not me.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Maybe SPP will weigh in, but state by state there are different laws as to legal responsibility for those ( and in many states 18 is still under legal drinking age ) - depending on whose providing what. I am only giving my opinion, but I really don't like the defense of they would be doing it somewhere else anyway because in some cases that may, and in others may not be true. For some the ' approval' of a consenting adult somehow makes some things they might not do OK, for others yes, they would be somewhere else...it's a grey area to be sure and I do not claim to be 100% right, nor do I believe I am 100% wrong... I do believe there is an obligation not to let people partying at ones house drive regardless, whether they are 18 or 38 or 58. The case I cited above with 6 dead teenagers, the driver was 26 who decided to drive them home while blind drunk. My oldest daughter also lost 3 swim team friends freshman year of high school as they were killed by a drunk driver coming home from a casino. He was 24 and had 11 priors -- yet at 6:30 AM was heading home from partying when he broadsided them at 100 mph 40% of all traffic deaths are alcohol related. That death total equates an average of almost 20,000 per year. as for legal drinking at 18 vs 21 -- consider: "Minimum legal drinking age (MLDA) laws. Raising the MLDA, such as from 18 to 21, decreases crash-related outcomes a median of 16% for the targeted age groups". Some people can handle things at 18 that others cannot at 50, and vice versa, so there is no broad brush being used here, just caution.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <///we had a 'cool' parent like that in the next suburb over - and 6 dead I am personally hoping they lose their house and freedom./// How did I miss that one earlier?? Well anyway it won't happen to me. I am well aware of today's sue happy jerks and the attitude of today's society which says to go after everyone who did NOT get in a car and kill somebody or who had NO direct involvement in hurting somebody else like bartenders, bars and house hosts. Everyone makes their own decisions and if some dumb ass 19 year old leaves my house drunk while I'm on vacation and injures somebody else don't think about coming my way trying to extract money out of me. If your loved one gets hurt you better talk to the dumb drunk and not me.< the oldest kid who was killed by the drunk driver - a friend of the cool parent - was 15 ! The parents were home and 'supervising ' the drinking , and allowed their friend to take them all home, except they are dead now. It was supposed to be a sleep over for 14 and 15 year olds for a birthday party. trust me, I stand by what I said about the house and freedom, and the prosecutor here is making sure it happens. They HAD direct responsibility - so you can call their parents sue happy jerks if you like, but I dare you to attend the wakes of kids like this and then let their parents know. I don't claim to tell you how to live your life, but if it was my kid and you think I would not hold you partially responsible, you'd be very wrong.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yes at 19 I'd expect my kids to know better if I have done my job as a parent ( not saying my 22 year old has never drank at a party because I am not stupid either - but I know they have never driven drunk) and at 16 - 17 was at parties where people allowed underage drinking as I got called to come and pick up my daughter and some friends a they did not want to lose college athletic scholarships they had worked so hard for- always went to get them, no questions asked) - - but I also have seen enough of a cavalier attitude towards drinking parties for kids, and consequences of drunk driving to attend 9 wakes associated with it ( actually some of the kids were waked together )- that's enough for me
