Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<You do realize that the symbolism of the show is lost on the vast majority of guests. In fact, I only heard the "story" of the show a couple of years ago (and probably from someone on here). So despite the lull of the globe making sense according to the story, I question whether or not it makes sense from an entertainment perspective.>> I agree. I've always loved the show, but it's gotten to the point where I'm tired of the globe.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>You do realize that the symbolism of the show is lost on the vast majority of guests. In fact, I only heard the "story" of the show a couple of years ago (and probably from someone on here). So despite the lull of the globe making sense according to the story, I question whether or not it makes sense from an entertainment perspective.<<< So? Another excuse to dumb things down and to not make the parks intelligent. If some guests get it, and some don't, and all enjoy it anyway, it's a good thing. >>>I'm also not sure how the globe is justified by this: 'Man has not progressed enough on the planet to use them.' I thought the images on the globe depicted people, civilizations, etc. Doesn't all that stuff imply that humankind has progressed enough to use fireworks and lasers in the show. (Maybe I'm missing the point about the images on the globe.)<<<< The fireworks and lasers are representative of how we have built and use technology. The "slow" parts of the show don't use them, as we aren't using technology and intelligence. It's more primal. And calm.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I agree. I've always loved the show, but it's gotten to the point where I'm tired of the globe.<<< Keep the globe as a visual focal point and symbol for the show, but use fountains, lights and more pyro around it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***RoE has been playing since 1999*** I just happened to catch, entirely by accident, the very first performance of it (an unscheduled, unannounced preview a week or so before the official opening). I wasn't even "in the park" that day, I was in rehearsals backstage and only happened to walk onstage at all to get something to eat after we'd finished (I was in the mood for one of those awesome Germany bratwursts they sell from a cart out front, and a big beer of course). Around the time I was getting ready to head back to my hotel for the evening, there was an announcement. And 30 minutes later, I got to see the brand new show. Pretty neat bit of luck for me that day.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> That is because Guernica is an atrocity depicted, showing how aweful the Franco empire and the Nazi tests on civil control impacted the town. IROE shows how great humanity and the planet can be. << Dave, my point is Illuminations apparently tries to deal with profound ideas with fireworks and a tacky electric globe. I don't think theme parks are very effective when it comes to this kind of thing. >> I totally got the symbolism first time, and love it more and more each time I see it. It is one of the few things where I feel WDW has a best of breed attraction. << Good for you! But you're a smartass, too. Most of us dumbasses didn't get the symbolism ("Oooh..fireworks!--fire!--MUST be the creation of the universe!"). That suggests to me that the show may be impressive, the music inspiring, but the narrative is jumbled and inarticulate (until you come to a Disney discussion board where fans tell you what Illuminations means and what the backstory to Adventureland is).
Originally Posted By leobloom >> So? Another excuse to dumb things down and to not make the parks intelligent. If some guests get it, and some don't, and all enjoy it anyway, it's a good thing. << Ah, EpEx. Bad storytelling (or the awfully vague symbolism of a fireworks show) is different from an audience being too dumb to "get it." This isn't on the audience, from my opinion; it's on the script of the show that could be clearer. The show tries to be sophisticated, and to some people that ambition translates into a show that needs an offical Disney-fan interpreter. I know you are a fanatic and love to absorb all the backstories that have been "discovered" around the parks, but the normal guest shouldn't need to have that level of enthusiasm to appreciate the attractions. I think the globe is a case where fans may "get it," but the vast majority of guests, I SUSPECT, is interested in the pretty fireworks and laser show.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> The fireworks and lasers are representative of how we have built and use technology. The "slow" parts of the show don't use them, as we aren't using technology and intelligence. It's more primal. And calm. << But my point is the globe shows images of the modern world (skyscrapers? bridges? stuff like that?). So why aren't the fireworks and lasers used during that section of the globe show? Or maybe they are? I'm the first to admit I don't have the show memorized.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>and what the backstory to Adventureland is<< casually looks around and kicks the dirt..... anyone care to enlighten me? Not feeling much like a hardcore fan at the moment! lol!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 RoE wasn't looking great Tuesday night. Pyro missing or mistimed, lighting out on some of the pavilions etc. It is a great show, but it is also long in the tooth. The only reason for keeping the show (other than money) is because Disney doesn't have what it takes to top the show now. That's sad ... now, not as sad as what I saw at the MK tonight, but sad nonetheless.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo But Leo, those other depths Disney used to offer that casual visitors didn't fully notice, is a part of the real magic. What I loved about Tapestry of Nations and IROE, is that it did feel like we were at an Expo or Olympics. Awesome. Disney is at it's best when it uses symbolic approaches. Fully articulated narrative is dull and mery myopic. It is the layers that makes Disney what it is.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> I just happened to catch, entirely by accident, the very first performance of it (an unscheduled, unannounced preview a week or so before the official opening).<<< I'm guessing that this is BEFORE Sept 22nd? I have a official invitation to what was the press party, and the first "public" show.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Dave, my point is Illuminations apparently tries to deal with profound ideas with fireworks and a tacky electric globe. I don't think theme parks are very effective when it comes to this kind of thing. >> I totally got the symbolism first time, and love it more and more each time I see it. It is one of the few things where I feel WDW has a best of breed attraction. << Good for you! But you're a smartass, too. Most of us dumbasses didn't get the symbolism ("Oooh..fireworks!--fire!--MUST be the creation of the universe!"). That suggests to me that the show may be impressive, the music inspiring, but the narrative is jumbled and inarticulate (until you come to a Disney discussion board where fans tell you what Illuminations means and what the backstory to Adventureland is).<<<<<< It's symbolism. It's not supposed to jump out at you, though, if you are so inclined, it can. Like it did for Dave and I. And the narration really does give the whole thing away... As does the imagery.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Ah, EpEx. Bad storytelling (or the awfully vague symbolism of a fireworks show) is different from an audience being too dumb to "get it." This isn't on the audience, from my opinion; it's on the script of the show that could be clearer. The show tries to be sophisticated, and to some people that ambition translates into a show that needs an offical Disney-fan interpreter. I know you are a fanatic and love to absorb all the backstories that have been "discovered" around the parks, but the normal guest shouldn't need to have that level of enthusiasm to appreciate the attractions. I think the globe is a case where fans may "get it," but the vast majority of guests, I SUSPECT, is interested in the pretty fireworks and laser show.<<<< Just because something with a story isn't in your face about it, doesn't mean it's bad story telling, Leo. It's subtle. "Normal" guests don't need that level of enthusiasm or knowledge about the show, you are right... But... should that mean that all of us don't get to have it? Dumb down things because some don't want or understand it. Far better to produce a intelligent product that's superior, that everyone can enjoy regardless if they get the story or not. I think RoE does that... The show is continuously packed and plays to enthusiasm. And I bet you not all of those people "know" it's the creation of the universe that they are watching.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>But my point is the globe shows images of the modern world (skyscrapers? bridges? stuff like that?). So why aren't the fireworks and lasers used during that section of the globe show? Or maybe they are? I'm the first to admit I don't have the show memorized.<<< They are. The images shown on the globe "before" civilization are ones of animals, cave drawings, and primality. The pyro comes in at the present day. The lights come on when Nation-States are formed.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>anyone care to enlighten me? Not feeling much like a hardcore fan at the moment! lol!<<< Colonialism and Indigenous Culture.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>RoE wasn't looking great Tuesday night. Pyro missing or mistimed, lighting out on some of the pavilions etc. It is a great show, but it is also long in the tooth. The only reason for keeping the show (other than money) is because Disney doesn't have what it takes to top the show now. That's sad ... now, not as sad as what I saw at the MK tonight, but sad nonetheless<<< I need details.... What was missing, what was mistimed, what lights were out. ;-) It looked fine in December, save for a fountain that never shut off.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Dinosaur: Still underrated in my opinion. I can't fathom why some folks don't like it. --------- I dig it also-- maybe it's the little boy in me who always loved dinosaurs, but actually I think the ride and the story work nicely. Intense enough to be fun, not too much so that smaller kids can't ride.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 What I do not understand is why people will spend a fortune to fly 1000's of miles, pony up a shed load of cash, to stand with a teenage girl/20 something with a rubber head on, after waiting ages in a line. But they do. Heck, they are even ripping out an attraction in Florida for this<<< I SO agree with this. Funny how there is such a rift between two types of fans... ----------------------- part of the difficulty they have trying to be all things to all people-- you never win the majority of the time. I ahve been onboth ends of this..when my two girls were little they lived for the character interactions, and autographs chasing, pics with their favorites etc... meal interactions..but yes as they got older we just blow past this stuff and except for a brief glance- or one photo op at a character meal ( we still usually do one because my nieces are younger) - it is unimportant to us now. just as there are those who really want more lower end accomodations and others who aren't interested and would not stay there..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 as far as illuminations - it is a gem. I have never ever been there with anyone who didn't 'get it'- so not sure exactly who these 'normal' guests are but really do we want to cater to the lowest common denominator- we already have a nationwide public school system that does that and looks where it's driving us. We had relatives visit from Ireland who had never -ever been to a theme park and were blown away by Illuminations- and 'got it' totally--
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper The vast majority have no idea that it's split up into 3 different parts representing 3 different periods in the Earth's history. And apparently not wanting a middle section that drags is now catering to the lowest common denominator? Lolz
