Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Bravo, yes, Disney needs to do more adult (Epcot like stuff). AS a child, that is what I loved about Disney. And that is what I miss.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***>>>I just happened to catch, entirely by accident, the very first performance of it (an unscheduled, unannounced preview a week or so before the official opening).<<< I'm guessing that this is BEFORE Sept 22nd?*** Must have been, I guess. I don't recall the exact dates but that sounds about right as we were preparing for the winter contract in Tokyo which started around early October (rehearsals in Epcot for a few weeks followed by a couple more weeks in Japan...so yeah, mid-September is about right).
Originally Posted By irishfan It was definetly before September 22nd, as I was on property too, going to my hotel on one of the buses when the bus driver mentioned it would be worth going to Epcot tonight to see something special for the first time. One of my fondest Disney memories.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>It will be replaced with something kewl and synergistic, like WoC. Hence, I say, don't touch it.<<< They aren't ready to touch it. If they had the right mindset for EPCOT (which, they might, it's just lurking behind a budget...) I'd be all for them refurbishing it. But as it stands, it wouldn't end well.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Just because something with a story isn't in your face about it, doesn't mean it's bad story telling, Leo. It's subtle. << Vague storytelling isn't the same as sublte storytelling. Your class E-tickets (Space, Thunder, Mansion, etc) were subtle. Guests knew Space was a ride through space. I'm not at all convinced that your average guests sees Illuminations as anything more than the park's nightly fireworks show.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Granted some folks might not grasp all of the story but ultimately you should be getting: Acceleration Chaos Space Life Adventure Home Celebration Meaning << Yeah, I never got that. And I doubt any of you picked up on all those stages without reading the Cliffs Notes. >> It doesn't have the same narrative arc of usual Disney shows - much like all of Epcot's Millennium Celebration it just feels more adult and upscale. Exactly the type of product that should be featured at Epcot. << And I disagree that vague storytelling equates adult and upscale. I'd call it vague and inarticulate.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Bravo, yes, Disney needs to do more adult (Epcot like stuff). AS a child, that is what I loved about Disney. And that is what I miss. << I gotta ask, Dave. Do you think theme parks are equipped to handle "adult" concepts very well? Because over and over I hear fans rhapsodizing about the glory days at EPCOT Center when they could learn and receive enlightenment by riding 10-minute dark rides on general themes like "communication," "transportation," or "energy." And I don't think that happened with the vast majority of the guests (and apparently Disney realized this when they updated the park). Epcot was boring as hell to the 4-year-old me. And I'm not sure as an adult that I'd want to return to that 1984 version of the park. Disney, IMO, should stick to what it does best: entertainment. Let's leave the education to universities, libraries, museums, and the like.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Epcot was boring as hell to the 4-year-old me. And I'm not sure as an adult that I'd want to return to that 1984 version of the park.>> I was 6 or 7 the first time I went to EPCOT Center, and I found the place absolutely fascinating. Every ride in Future World spoke to me on some level. Maybe it was because I was in first grade and just starting to learn about science and history, and was still watching shows like 3-2-1 Contact and Mr Wizard. Or maybe it was because I was destined to be an Engineer, and that's just how my mind worked. But either way, this little boy loved everything about the original EPCOT Center, and longs for Disney to go back to the days when they did edutainment. And don't get me wrong - I loved the original Magic Kingdom too almost equally. But the nice thing about WDW in those days was that you could have the best of both - the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center at their best!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>> Vague storytelling isn't the same as sublte storytelling. Your class E-tickets (Space, Thunder, Mansion, etc) were subtle. Guests knew Space was a ride through space. I'm not at all convinced that your average guests sees Illuminations as anything more than the park's nightly fireworks show.<<< Vague implies that they leave details out... RoE doesn't do that. It has the same visual, musical, and thematic cues that any of those rides have. There is a story, it's just depicted in a different medium. and between all of that, it's obvious that there is some narrative going on.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Yeah, I never got that. And I doubt any of you picked up on all those stages without reading the Cliffs Notes.<<<< Nah, I had a idea of something going on, and could easily tell you it was based on time and history. When I read up on all the intricate details and actual "pinpoints" that the show has, it makes a lot more sense. God forbid we do some reading...
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I gotta ask, Dave. Do you think theme parks are equipped to handle "adult" concepts very well? Because over and over I hear fans rhapsodizing about the glory days at EPCOT Center when they could learn and receive enlightenment by riding 10-minute dark rides on general themes like "communication," "transportation," or "energy." And I don't think that happened with the vast majority of the guests (and apparently Disney realized this when they updated the park). Epcot was boring as hell to the 4-year-old me. And I'm not sure as an adult that I'd want to return to that 1984 version of the park. Disney, IMO, should stick to what it does best: entertainment. Let's leave the education to universities, libraries, museums, and the like<<< Ya, I do. As a kid growing up at Disneyland, I was inspired by so many things. The Jungle Cruise made me dream of travelling (and I did make it to Africa and Asia as I dreamt of as a boy). Pirates of the Caribbean facinated me, and left such an impact, that I researched pirate history and lore a lot as a kid and teenager, learned to fence (competed in high school), and sail (qualified as an RYA competent crew member when I was 14, and participated in the tall ships run from the UK to Gibralter in 1990, inspired by PotC and the Sailing Ship Columbia). I used to dream of the frontier days and loved the Golden Horseshoe Revue. And Tomorrowland. I would have found physics and chemistry to be boring, but Miracles through molecules and the Adventure Through Inner Space made it far more facinating. Even It's a Small World I think had a huge impact on me. I studied International Relations in University for my BSc, and have actively worker for European integration, as well as wanting to work for UNICEF. And onto Epcot, I found a facination with hydroponics thanks to the Land, I never heard of them before. Found a new digital pen technology at Innoventions at Epcot which I brought over to the UK, used to implement new ways of working in social care, reducing waiting lists for disability assessments and saving one county over $1m. It led to me winning a national accolade and delivering a keynote speech at an international conference in Copenhagen. Space Ship Earth (went to research more on the Persian empire), Universe of Energy (geothermal dynamics), Wonders of Life (adrenal glands), The Living Seas (the naval dolphin communication programme), World of Motion (Mongulphia - sp - brothers) and Horizons (read more Bradbury) - , they all taught me a few lessons, inspired me to research new areas, and made me think about the future in positive ways, thinking "what next?". Pretty awesome if you ask me. And do you know what? On our last trip, my son was not quite 4. His two fav attractions in all of WDW, not just Epcot? Spaceship Earth and Listen to the Land. And he was too short to go on Test Track, Mission Space or Soarin'. And my mother in law, it was her first trip, and the Wonders of China and Listen to the Land was her favs. She too could not go on Mission Space due to health conditions. So, based on that experience, old Epcot was much better. There is this issue too. There are a number of people who never bother with books and libraries, but having a taster of something brought to life is more likely to wake them up. They can still go and ride a coaster, or see a show, but these little snippets do have a positive effect. This is why I hate the tooning, where is the inspiration there? Also, seeing artifacts in a museum is nothing like seeing a moment in time brought to life. Theme parks make these things more accessable. So to answer your question, I think parks are a perfect venue for education.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo And I am proof that a theme park can help someone want to learn, read, explore and gain degrees and post grad qualifications.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <Disney, IMO, should stick to what it does best: entertainment. Let's leave the education to universities, libraries, museums, and the like> Boy, do I totally and completely disagree with this line of thinking. Have you visited a museum lately? They're doing the very things they learned from Disney edutainment. Ugh. No wonder today's Disneyland is so depressing. It's guys like leobloom who are in charge of Disney Parks management and convince everyone else that they should 'leave museums to the museums.'
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Exactly Jim, Disney use to often be commissioned to help with museums, inluding the excellent Western Museum in LA. Disney used to be a high quality buffet offering a little bit of everything in their attraction and entertainment menu. But now, it is chicken fingers and all desserts. You know what, too many sweets (toons) can make you sick and eventually kill you.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <But now, it is chicken fingers and all desserts> totally Dave! And those lovers of junk food that Disney seems to concentrate on.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Disney used to be a high quality buffet offering a little bit of everything in their attraction and entertainment menu. But now, it is chicken fingers and all desserts.>> I really can't agree here, man. I've gotten a lot of good stuff at Disney buffets the past 3 years that I've visited consistently. Yes, the loss of the prime rib is huge, but you can still get really good food that isn't substandard "American" fare.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It was allegorical Hokie Skipper - talking about the attractions and entertainment.
