Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Please... to them it's an E Ticket and Potter-esque. LOL>> IDK about that...I spoke to someone who worked on the project before it opened and they called it a D. And I don't think they advertise it like it's the alpha nad omega of attractions.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer The way they push it on the media, it really is. But I'm glad that they at least internally call it a D. Which it is. I wonder what TLM is, "internally".
Originally Posted By u k fan I agree with those that say Buzz is a great ride for the whole family. It's my Dad's favorite attraction I'd bet and he's 69 whilst at the same time my 3-year-old Nephew loves it as well. At DLP it offers a great alternative attraction to those who don't want to ride Space Mountain. I also agree that it's very repeatable and a lot of fun! On the subject of edutainment it's still there, I just think you have to be prepared to look harder for it now. As Dave said earlier, I've learned things about history from riding POTC or HM you just have to make the effort to look!!!
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <a href="http://www.daveandbusters.com/" target="_blank">http://www.daveandbusters.com/</a>
Originally Posted By leobloom >> God forbid we do some reading... << Because everyone should have to read a Disney discussion board to figure out what the hell's going on. Evan, please realize you aren't the average guest. "Reading up" on the details shouldn't be requisite to understanding the narrative of a fireworks show.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> There is this issue too. There are a number of people who never bother with books and libraries, but having a taster of something brought to life is more likely to wake them up. They can still go and ride a coaster, or see a show, but these little snippets do have a positive effect. This is why I hate the tooning, where is the inspiration there? Also, seeing artifacts in a museum is nothing like seeing a moment in time brought to life. Theme parks make these things more accessable. So to answer your question, I think parks are a perfect venue for education. << Thanks for the insightful post, Dave. I'm still skeptical about the entire premise of edutainment and Disney's handling of that sort of thing. But I guess your experience proves it has an effect on some percentage (of course, I'd still say you're far and away the exception, not the rule). And I would never mistake the parks for bringing a "moment in time brought to life." Disney's history is a very biased version. But I can respect your take on the subject.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> Have you visited a museum lately? They're doing the very things they learned from Disney edutainment. << Guess it depends on the museum. Most art galleries I've visited DON'T do things like Disney. Most history museums on the other hand, do. >> No wonder today's Disneyland is so depressing. It's guys like leobloom who are in charge of Disney Parks management and convince everyone else that they should 'leave museums to the museums.' << I guess I forgot how much I learned from Big Thunder Mountain.
Originally Posted By leobloom << Disney used to be a high quality buffet offering a little bit of everything in their attraction and entertainment menu. But now, it is chicken fingers and all desserts. >> Oh for the glory days when Disney was full of sophisticated entertainment. A jungle full of mechanical animals, singing country bears, and an outdated Jetsons-version of tomorrow. I prefer the classic E-tickets to the toons, but c'mon, it's simply a preference, Dave, not a reflection of one's intellect (though you probably beg to differ).
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>Because everyone should have to read a Disney discussion board to figure out what the hell's going on. EE, please realize you aren't the average guest. "Reading up" on the details shouldn't be requisite to understanding the narrative of a fireworks show<<<< That's not what I'm saying at all... It was a veiled reference to Disney's lack of media and information in their guidebooks because there is not a need/want to know and use these things. Which is ultimately a reflection of society, but that's getting REEEEALLY off topic! LOL
Originally Posted By leobloom >> So, I suppose the argument here would be 'What sports fan, who is there to watch the big game and buy nachos and a beer, cares about seeing contemporary art?' Thank goodness not everybody believes in the separation of 'art' and 'entertainment.' << I never implied there should be, or could be, a separation between art and entertainment. But I think a theme park attractions created for a didactic purpose are doomed to give their subjects a superficial treatment.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> That's not what I'm saying at all... It was a veiled reference to Disney's lack of media and information in their guidebooks because there is not a need/want to know and use these things. Which is ultimately a reflection of society, but that's getting REEEEALLY off topic! LOL << When did the guidebooks ever provide that kind of layered information? Honest question. I remember there once was an Education Center at Epcot, close to SSE. You could get all kinds of handouts that went into greater depth about the different pavilions. I'm pretty sure it's no longer there.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>When did the guidebooks ever provide that kind of layered information? Honest question. I remember there once was an Education Center at Epcot, close to SSE. You could get all kinds of handouts that went into greater depth about the different pavilions. I'm pretty sure it's no longer there.<<<< 70's and 80's maps had some GREAT stuff in there... I should post scans.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think TSMM and Buzz have great repeatability. PotC is a classic and a must do, but one time per visit is plenty for me. On the other hand, I always do Buzz and TSMM several times per visit. As for edutainment, I think it is great but it becomes outdated very quickly... especially when your theme is "Future World". It's the same problem Tomorrowland always had... the vision of the future soon becomes either dated or outlandish. Spaceship Earth does a pretty poor job once you get past the 60's. The Living Seas was no longer "state of the art" five years after it opened. I think Edutainment does much better with history than with the future.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>I think Edutainment does much better with history than with the future<<<< That shouldn't be a problem for EPCOT, then. Half of the original goals for Future World was just that... "Where Man has been, and where he is going". Give us rides rooted in progress and history, with futuristic finales (SSE... WoM... UoE...) and then futuristic settings and exhibits that can easily be swapped out.
Originally Posted By u k fan I learnt something on BTM... at DLP the left hand line is always quicker! In all seriousness though, I think there are things that can be learned at just about every attraction if done right. At Paris the line for BTM is full of old tools and signs about working conditions so if one is receptive it can give a real insight into what life might have been like then for those working in the mine!!!
Originally Posted By leemac <<But I think a theme park attractions created for a didactic purpose are doomed to give their subjects a superficial treatment.>> And therein lies the crux of the issue - when you have guests captured for just a few minutes you need to be able to ensure that narratives are open and accessible. The best attractions work on multiple levels - POTC is a great boat ride for the novice - just take in the individual scenes and enjoy - but there is so much detail in the storytelling and the linear threads that tie each scene together that you can go very deep into the mythology of the attraction if you wish. There is a reason why attractions like POTC and HM are the true standard setters - they are truly accessible by all. Now you can't have an entire park filled with those type of experiences - it would be prohibitive from a cost perspective and would not tick all of the menu planning boxes - today's theme park guests expect more - usually more thrills. Personally I'm always uncomfortable when WDP&R is in preaching mode - it isn't the role of the theme parks to be educator. Epcot Center's original line-up of attractions often had a very hackneyed view of the world - and I suspect that was the trade-off when you had GM behind World of Motion and Exxon behind Universe of Energy. At worse edutainment attractions are downright revisionist (like Meet The World). I loved the original Epcot Center as much as the next person but ultimately I felt the park needed to evolve and more away from the "educational" aspects that didn't keep up with the audience's ability to source knowledge elsewhere.
Originally Posted By Britain So, Leemac, in your opinion, what should be the mission of Epcot? Future World in particular? Surely something better than "Science Fair" and it can't really be Tomorrowland.
