Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "It was built in 1956 -- exactly how does Walt having that ride in the park in 1956 justify the Dis Co building rides like MM today?? Or justify dedicating an entire land (two actually, if we count DinoRama) to rides like this??" It is justifiable because there is nothing new or out of the ordinary about Disney building these sorts of rides. More importantly, Walt Disney himself sanctioned their creation, maintained them, and included them as part of his second park in Florida. The company has been creating (and even cloning) these kinds of attractions in one form or another around the world ever since. Yeah, MM is a weakly disguised kiddy coaster, but so is Gadget's Go Coaster. Given these facts, I cannot quite understand why similar attractions at DCA cause some fans blood to boil. "Please help me understand." I am not sure why you are confused. It is simple, really.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Walt had no money left in 1955, so he did whatever he could to put *something*... *anything*... in Tomorrowland." That argument would make perfect sense except that Disney cloned the original Dumbo when WDW was built 16 years after DL opened. You can't say that the company didn't have money to improve the design by then.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Hans just likes the debate." Most of the time (like now) I simply find people's biases annoying and like to challege their point of view. And you're right - almost. I'm not all that appreciative of the less adequate aspects of DCA OR DL.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig >>>Walt Disney himself sanctioned their creation, maintained them, and included them as part of his second park in Florida.<<< and >>>That argument would make perfect sense except that Disney cloned the original Dumbo when WDW was built 16 years after DL opened. You can't say that the company didn't have money to improve the design by then.<<< Actually, Walt took very little interest in the "Theme Park" aspect of the "Disney World" development. At the time, Walt was immersed in his vision for EPCOT, the forward looking, self sustaining, new community of tomorrow. It was his passion and consumed most of his time during the final years of his life. Had he lived, "EPCOT Center" (later to be renamed simply "Epcot") the "2nd Gate" theme park, would not have come to fruition, as his vision was much different. His WED guys would approach him to discuss aspects, concepts and planning for the "Florida Disneyland", and Walt would basicly say "yeah, yeah... whatever", and go back into his little room and work on EPCOT. He already built a theme park, and although he knew the success of the Florida project hinged on having a successful second Disneyland, it was not where his heart was. And he knew that his people knew full well how to do a second Disneyland, so he took a much less active role in the day to day details of the "theme park". My point is, Walt was always one to forge new ground. Never content to do anything twice, he was always looking to the next big thing. "You can't top pigs with pigs", was a favorite saying of his, in reference to his resistance to keep churning out more "Three Little Pigs" cartoons after the initial success of the first one and continuing pressures from distributors and theater chains that he produce more and more Pig cartoons. And anyway, most of the real nitty gritty planning and engineering for the "Florida Disneyland" occured in the years after Walt died, and only after Walt's brother Roy decided that the company would indeed go forward with the Florida Project, and see it through to completion. Walt himself didn't want the Florida Project to be called "Walt Disney World". After Walt's death, Roy directed that it be called exactly that. And in Walt's day, the "Florida Disneyland" was known simply as the "theme park", only later to be christened "The Magic Kingdom". So I would not attribute too many of the "Dumbo" ride decisions to Walt. And if anything seems certain to me, it is this: Of the two Disney theme parks that debuted in 2001, certainly the one that Walt would have been most impressed with is Tokyo Disney Sea.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> That's simplistic and simply doesn't hold any water. But pigeonholing people so you can allow yourself to feel superior to them seems to comfort you somehow. << I'll just say this, Dabob2. When I read the following... <a href="http://hodu.com/abilene.shtml" target="_blank">http://hodu.com/abilene.shtml</a> ...I think of people who probably are going to be more like you -- more like the way you'll react in a group setting -- than not. And when it came to the dynamics of an "emperor," I'd imagine that Eisner/Braverman/Pressler -- and Eisner in particular -- were seen by many of the people around them at the DisCo as being dressed to the nines, as wearers of the finest robes imaginable.
Originally Posted By mstaft Hmmm, it seems to me the debate comment makes some sense. I think there is alot of trashy and cheap attractions in Toon Town. The reason I think DL can get away with it is there are ten and twenty more excellently themed and executed unique attractions in the park. IMHO, this is way DCA cannot justify lower end attractions when they did not have the wisdom to build the core of the park around something first class.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "The reason I think DL can get away with it is there are ten and twenty more excellently themed and executed unique attractions in the park." Yep. I've always said that DCA's biggest flaw isn't what they built; it's what they didn't build. Ideally they should have had at least one or two high profile signature E ticket attractions.
Originally Posted By mstaft ^^ Yep- They lost one when they sent SOARIN" TO Epcot. I think if the opening of the park had seen this plus Tower, there would not be so much complaining about whaat is there. Maybe- one day- they will learn form their mistakes when they open Ahaheim park #3!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Maybe- one day- they will learn form their mistakes when they open Ahaheim park #3!" Let's hope so! All things considered I don't expect a third Disney theme park in Anaheim in my lifetime. Of course that's a whole other discussion.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Maybe- one day- they will learn form their mistakes when they open Ahaheim park #3! >>> Unlikely. The group of people and the mentality that was responsible for DCA both from a creative and a financial standpoint actually seem to be gaining influence within the company.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Hey thanks for getting me out of bed to read this "everyyearofmylife". I got a good laugh. Couple paragraphs went over the top like the drunk moms slushing some DCA drinks down the mouths ... but over all ... At this milestone in time - DCA's 6th Anniversary .. a good read. It's like "same old - same - old ... paying customers never showed up in droves, but at least there's a couple new things to look forward to. Not looking for any debate on this story though. We've all been through it! And for me .... I've been doing in since May 2000 on this board! Now, it's just a bickering between posters who I'll never agree with anyway ... so ... enough. Back to bed. night!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt >Hey thanks for getting me out of bed to read this "everyyearofmylife".< Sorry to disturb your sleeping. Were we bickering that loud?
Originally Posted By oc_dean I catch the little snide remark in there Hans ... and I'd appreciate you don't go down that road after I've been through a triple bypass surgury just 9 days ago. goodnight!
Originally Posted By Darkbeer OH MY GOSH!!! Here is hoping you are a lot better... And Lisa is PISSED about just hearing the news!!!! Well, anyway, you need to hook up with us at the Lost Bar, where are favorite multiple bypass bartender Ron is working.. And seriously, glad you are OK!!!!!
Originally Posted By oc_dean Thanks Darkbeer. Please send my regards to Lisa. You'll find Mr. X devoted a topic to me in Community. later Dean
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Snapping at people who had no idea what kind of ordeal you had just been through is not what I would call rational behavior. That said however, recover well and sleep deliciously.
