Originally Posted By Dabob2 <>> That's simplistic and simply doesn't hold any water. But pigeonholing people so you can allow yourself to feel superior to them seems to comfort you somehow. << <I'll just say this, Dabob2. When I read the following... <a href="http://hodu.com/abilene.shtml" target="_blank">http://hodu.com/abilene.shtml</a> ...I think of people who probably are going to be more like you -- more like the way you'll react in a group setting -- than not.> Wow. Thanks for proving my point. You've just determined that I'll "probably" be like a certain type of person... in other words, you've pigeonholed me, a person you've never met and know next to nothing about. It's arrogant, illogical, and is based on nothing but differing opinions (which aren't even as different as you seem to believe) on a theme park. Which is just downright weird. But you do seem to have this need to feel superior to other people, so knock yourself out.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> You've just determined that I'll "probably" be like a certain type of person << Yes, even more so since the so-called Abilene Paradox pertains to any and every person in a group, no matter his or her opinion. It refers to the tendency of just about everyone (or everyone, period) to submerge his or her personal preferences in order to not make waves, or to not offend those in a peer group, or to not upset the boss or a spouse, or a group of friends. <a href="http://hodu.com/abilene.shtml" target="_blank">http://hodu.com/abilene.shtml</a> If people who truly dislike DCA -- and rarely have peaches-and-cream comments about it -- nonetheless are probably going to conceal their unhappiness if they themselves were in the middle of an Abilene-Paradox situation at the DisCo, then you can be sure that goes double or triple (or quadruple) for those who already are quite likely to rationalize away the park's failings---much less those who flat-out love DCA.
Originally Posted By gadzuux <a href="http://www.newton-corbett.co.uk/Albolene-2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.newton-corbett.co.u k/Albolene-2.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >> You've just determined that I'll "probably" be like a certain type of person << <Yes, even more so since the so-called Abilene Paradox...> So all you've done is assume I fit into something called the Abilene Paradox, also without having met me or knowing anything about me. Which doesn't make your assumption any less illogical or assinine - it just gives a name for something you assume fits me but does not.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Hey Gadzuux, I think it's gonna take A LOT of Albolene cleanser to whipe away DCA! When it comes in by truck loads ... lets start with Paradise Pier ... and lets make our way east to whipe out the warf area .. and then we'll go from there. Okay?
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> So all you've done is assume I fit into something called the Abilene Paradox << Yes, even more so when I do admit that I'm 100% prone to falling under the spell, if you will, of the Abilene Paradox, certainly if my paycheck and job security -- and working relationship with the boss or manager, or even co-workers -- are on the line. At the same time, I also don't hesitate to proclaim my dislike of DCA. You, by contrast, don't seem to want to acknowledge your vulnerability to the aforementioned paradox. At the same time, you've been rather wishy-washy on various occasions about some of the mediocrity of DCA. I think the phrase that applies here is: Know thyself.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<I do admit that I'm 100% prone to falling under the spell, if you will, of the Abilene Paradox, certainly if my paycheck and job security -- and working relationship with the boss or manager, or even co-workers -- are on the line. At the same time, I also don't hesitate to proclaim my dislike of DCA. You, by contrast, don't seem to want to acknowledge your vulnerability to the aforementioned paradox. At the same time, you've been rather wishy-washy on various occasions about some of the mediocrity of DCA.>> I don't see any real connection between this paradox and liking or disliking a theme park. You seem to think that just because some people find parts of DCA pretty good (or at least moderately successful) that somehow group pressure prevents those same people from pooh-poohing the park at all? That's laughable at best.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >> So all you've done is assume I fit into something called the Abilene Paradox << <Yes, even more so when I do admit that I'm 100% prone to falling under the spell, if you will, of the Abilene Paradox, certainly if my paycheck and job security -- and working relationship with the boss or manager, or even co-workers -- are on the line.> Knowing yourself is quite possible. Pretending you know anything of value about someone you've never met is foolhardy. <At the same time, I also don't hesitate to proclaim my dislike of DCA.> Which is a non-sequitur. <You, by contrast, don't seem to want to acknowledge your vulnerability to the aforementioned paradox.> Nope. What I said is you had no idea whether or how much I might fit into that box or not. You don't. Yet you have this desire to fit people into neat little boxes based on their opinions about a theme park. Which is just weird. <At the same time, you've been rather wishy-washy on various occasions about some of the mediocrity of DCA.> More non-sequitur. <I think the phrase that applies here is: Know thyself.> See above.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I don't see any real connection between this paradox and liking or disliking a theme park. << I'm giving the creators of DCA the benefit of the doubt. I'm assuming that during its planning and development, at least SOME of the executives and Imagineers realized the park was a creative and technical dud. But because of the so-called Abilene Paradox, they zipped their lips, closed their eyes, and, as the saying goes, the rest is history. >> Yet you have this desire to fit people into neat little boxes based on their opinions about a theme park. << You still haven't answered the simple question of whether you have been, or would be susceptible to the effects of the Abilene Paradox.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher Meanwhile, for the latest on where DCA stands in terms of attendance: <a href="http://www.connectingindustry.com/pdfs/TEA-ERAAttendance06.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.connectingindustry. com/pdfs/TEA-ERAAttendance06.pdf</a> TOP 25 AMUSEMENT/THEME PARKS WORLDWIDE (2006) 1 MAGIC KINGDOM, Walt Disney World, 16,640,000 2 DISNEYLAND, Anaheim 14,730,000 3 TOKYO DISNEYLAND 12,900,000 4 TOKYO DISNEY SEA 12,100,000 5 DISNEYLAND PARIS, 10,600,000 6 EPCOT, 10,460,000 7 DISNEY-MGM STUDIOS, 9,100,000 8 DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM, 8,910,000 9 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS JAPAN, Osaka 8,500,000 10 EVERLAND, South Korea 7,500,000 11+ UNIVERSAL STUDIOS, Orlando 6,000,000 11+ BLACKPOOL PLEASURE BEACH, England 6,000,000 13 DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE, Anaheim 5,950,000 14 SEAWORLD FLORIDA, Orlando 5,740,000 15 LOTTE WORLD, Seoul, South Korea 5,500,000 16 YOKOHAMA HAKKEIJIMA SEA PARADISE, Japan 5,400,000 17 ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE at Universal Orlando 5,300,000 18 HONG KONG DISNEYLAND 5,200,000 19 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOLLYWOOD 4,700,000 20 TIVOLI GARDENS, Copenhagen, Denmark 4,396,000 21 OCEAN PARK, Hong Kong 4,380,000 22 BUSCH GARDENS TAMPA BAY 4,360,000 23 SEAWORLD CALIFORNIA, San Diego 4,260,000 24 EUROPA-PARK, Rust, Germany 3,950,000 25 NAGASHIMA SPA LAND, Kuwana, Japan 3,910,000
Originally Posted By oc_dean >>13 DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE, Anaheim 5,950,000 << And that's a generous number too .... given the huge number of AP clicks through the turnstile, AND 2fr1s.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Interesting that with all that has been invested into WDW that it seems to only get about double the attendance of DLR. No wonder all the corporate money seems to be heading to Anaheim at the moment. We don't have 20+ resort hotels to fill and maintain, as well as 4 major theme parks. Let's bring on the third park and some more hotels!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 >> Yet you have this desire to fit people into neat little boxes based on their opinions about a theme park. << <You still haven't answered the simple question of whether you have been, or would be susceptible to the effects of the Abilene Paradox.> Because it's a dumb question. Everybody would be in certain circumstances. It's like asking if I would be susceptible to the Stockholm Syndrome if I were kidnapped. Um, I guess. I guess most people would be. Of course, I haven't actually been kidnapped. At any rate, it's a non-sequitur to my point about you making assumptions about people you don't know, and assign them boxes that you can then feel superior to, based on their opinions of a theme park. Which remains weird.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt By editing the list and showing only domestic parks the list looks like this: 1 MAGIC KINGDOM, Walt Disney World, 16,640,000 2 DISNEYLAND, Anaheim 14,730,000 3 EPCOT, 10,460,000 4 DISNEY-MGM STUDIOS, 9,100,000 5 DISNEY'S ANIMAL KINGDOM, 8,910,000 6 UNIVERSAL STUDIOS, Orlando 6,000,000 7 DISNEY'S CALIFORNIA ADVENTURE, Anaheim 5,950,000 8 SEAWORLD FLORIDA, Orlando 5,740,000 9 ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE at Universal Orlando 5,300,000
Originally Posted By Socrates A quick thought on #68: I have some military experience (did you know I was a hoplite once?), and the military way is to offer your opinions until a decision is made. But once you have a decision, you're supposed to salute smartly and move out. That could've been the case here: "This is the way it's going to be. Get on board!" Also, I have read reports of how Pressler didn't want Imagineering to design this theme park in the first place, so I'm not sure how many (or who) should get most of the blame...at the working level at least. Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
