Originally Posted By twirlnhurl I wonder why they don't just close down one track and rehab it and then close the other track for it's rehab? That would allow for a much shorter closure time, if they only close it for the building/structural rehab. Wasn't that one of the original selling points of two-track rides?
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ you would need work lights on for H&S issues so it would destroy the "hurtling thru deep space" effect on the other side. The original selling point was capacity issues alone.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I'd feel so much better if the rehab time was 18-24 months myself. << Two years would seem like a reasonable amount of time for a complete makeover, 6 months seems like a cosmetic touchup. I wonder if TTA is receiving a good cleaning, and then screens will be installed to keep prying eyes out of the SM refurbishment. leemac, would you care to speculate on what could be accomplished in a 6 month makeover? >> ... and who knows? Phil may order ops to open it up even if sections of track are missing because you can't possibly have it closed for Spring Break can you? ;-) << There are some folks that go during Spring Break that would applaud that move. >> The complaint that HM is closed at present is the number 1 issue that City Hall is having to deal with. << I don't doubt this at all. I guess some folks just don't understand the need to address maintainence issues. I always go during value season, because I can't stand the heat of summer. I am use to attactions, and various facilities being closed. That's just a way of life in what use to be off season. I never felt cheated over it, I'm much more concerned about women, and children being forced to stand on a moving bus. If that happens in value season I dread to think what it would be like during peak.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>They just don't make them like this anymore. The queue used to be majestic, eerie, and transcendental. That was in 1975.<<< Man... I remember being a little kid in 1975, riding that thing right after opening. I still remember the theme music from the COMMERCIALS they played before it opened. The queue WAS transcendental. A wonderful way to put it. So cool, such a simple use of visual illusions - a warped "pepper's ghost" effect. That would still look good today.
Originally Posted By bayrr326 >> The complaint that HM is closed at present is the number 1 issue that City Hall is having to deal with. << All I have to say is boo-hoo. The park is over 35 years old and guess what major rehabs are going to start to become more commonplace. Esp. if the certain people in CA wake up and realize how rundown MK has become. If they cheap out on the rehab that will just be par for the course. Our SM is a joke compared to the other ones. I don't care if it takes 2 years gut it, put in new track, effects, soundtrack and make it darker and it will be an awesome ride. Our SM has a better layout than DL's so imagine what it will be like if we get the same type of upgrade. I rode DL's last summer and was completely blown away. I got off that ride laughing my ass off and got right back in line. I get off SM at WDW and just feel ashamed at the condition of the ride and then you gotta go by that awful post show that is just a joke and massively dated. They need to rehab and they need "Autopia" Tomorrowland Indy Speedway it is like when they did the Tomorrowland update it is like they forgot those 2 attractions. You can tell where the update ended. It is like the land that time forgot.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<And that would be fine. What basically is a permenant overlay on the original 1977 ride layout ends up making DL's Space Mountain my favorite rollercoaster out there.>> It's not my fave, but they certainly did do a great job of keeping the original vibe, but also modernizing ... that's what I'm looking for at MK. <<I firmly believe, if operating in a smooth, near-mint condition, with queue, ride and post-show effects/scenes that are updated, this ride can still be VERY relevant.>> Agreed. <<They just don't make them like this anymore.>> Uhm ... yeah. The same could be said for any WDW attraction of late with the exception of Everest (and possibly Nemo at the Seas). <<As you said, Spirit, they need to update the effects, even music, and they CERTAINLY need to stop being lazy and maintain darkness in the building. >> Yeah. Darkness what a concept. I wonder what percentage of SM riders actually remember when you rode thru an almost pitch-dark mountain? Likely not many because it hasn't been that way in over 15 years now. <<However, I really think the framework is really underrated and still has a lot of potential if brought up to excellent condition. Or are you taking a page out of Jay's playbook, Spirit, and putting more importance on having 30 identical Space Mountains all across the globe?>> I think you know better than that. My only complain about DL's SM is that they stuck the same exact version in HK. It would be nice if there were five different versions around the globe. <<As it stands today I like DL's Space Mountain VERY much. I like it much more than WDWs. But outside of the simpletons at Disney who take comments like that to mean, "Well, we should make WDW's a copy of DL's". I can see myself preferring WDW with some TLC. DL's is not the end-all-be-all. It has a worse queue, worse load, no post-show, etc. WDW's can certainly carry it's own under the right circumstances. Whew, so there's my jumbled feelings on it. Plenty of things need to be gutted and redone. IMO, Space is not one of 'em. Pull a Small World on it. >> Just one last thought ... after the great job WDI did of refreshing Small World have you seen how Phil Holmes and crew have maintained the attraction?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Now let me be the first to say...NO not TTA, that's the time of year when I go. Why couldn't they close it down some other time.>> <<MPierce it is funny that you should say that as that is precisely what MK is up against. MK is a year-round park now with little to no real seasonality unlike every other Disney park (even TDL and DL still have their quieter off-seasons) plus it has the lowest number of repeat/AP visitors so you do have to plan any significant refurbishment accordingly. It is a delicate balancing act when you need to take a beloved attraction like POTC, HM, iasw or SM down for an extended period (and 3 of that 4 have gone down in the last few years). The complaint that HM is closed at present is the number 1 issue that City Hall is having to deal with. For DL it isn't an issue to have both iasw and HM closed for the overlay installation and removal and the reason why HMH has never arrived at MK is that it is totally impractical to take out an E-ticket from the park for multiple-week closures annually. There has been the budget for it but ultimately the park opted for the increased Halloween spend like HalloWishes.>> Lee, I understand you towing/spinning the company line. It's part of your charm that's been missing around here lately But I find it just simply a convenient excuse WDW management uses to allow their premier attractions to fall into disrepair. It's basically bull. WDW may have fewer locals/APers than other parks, but so what? It always has. It did when it had only ONE park. Now, it has four. When it had only one or two, it didn't stop management from caring for attractions and that meant closures. To say WDW is simply too popular to ever be allowed to close attractions for regular upkeep, plussing and rehabbing is so absurd, I doubt even Phil or Erin would dare be quoted saying such. I always like to tell of how I went to the MK as kid in January of 79 or 80 and SM, 20,000 Leagues, Jungle Cruise and Peter Pan were all closed the weekend I was there. It didn't ruin my time. I didn't see a line of angry people snaking out of City Hall. There was more than enough other stuff to pick up the slack. And now with four parks, it's absurd to suggest Disney can't REGULARLY close attractions, even E-Tickets for maintenance. It's a sorry excuse to use when almost every major MK attraction currently has show quality issues. It's also a sorry and convenient excuse for not adding the Mansion overlay when the money was on the table. <<This is all part of the maintaining the classics project that WDI have implemented over the past few years. Use maintenance downtime to make some changes.>> I'd just like to see examples of WDW maintaining attractions because I must be missing it. <<I'm not going to comment on Space Mountain at this time but it has been near the top of the list for a long time.>> Yeah, and they keep deciding to ride that sucker to failure rather than risk a few angry DVCers at City Hall. Oh, and the fact you won't/can't comment further leads me to believe they want to cut the budget/scope of this even more or delay it yet again. Not good.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I actually like SM - so if they do just "rehab" it, I'm fine with it. I find it hard to believe they'd let it be used now if it was that bad structurally (I do still ride it!)>> I wouldn't.
Originally Posted By pheneix I used to work at that ride. I will not ride it until they completely and totally replace the ride track and its control system. I can't believe someone has not died on that ride yet.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <That's all I am saying. The actual WDW ride, when in excellent condition - is quite a ride. I would have loved to see what happened to DL happen to WDW. A replacement of track replicating the original, new effects, new sound, etc. < count me in for EXACTLY what ChiMike has said for SM.....
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^ if I wanted to a rocket start and inversions in the dark we already have that at RnRc -- let's not duplicate - and let's keep MK family friendly ride wise -- the other parks can have more modern ride systems and mild thrills as they do today - no problem
Originally Posted By twirlnhurl Wait, Spirit is suggesting that the operators of the Magic Kingdom are setting themselves up for failure as extremely as knowingly operating an attraction dangerously? I know they aren't the sharpest crayon in the shed, but even a complete idiot would see the implications of such an accident. Are they really that stupid?
Originally Posted By Skellington88 What you people fail to realize is that the SPace mountain building is HUGE. The current attraction only takes up roughly 50% of it. There are plans at Imagineering that would involve 2 tracks...one based on the classic version thats more family friendly and a second track that is alittle more adult based. There are some grand plans for Florida's space Mountain but if people like Phil Holmes keep getting in the way of imagineering we are never going to see cool stuff in the parks and eventually people are going to stop coming because everything is so stale. (They will go to Harry Potter land instead!)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I know they aren't the sharpest crayon in the shed, but even a complete idiot would see the implications of such an accident. Are they really that stupid?>> Ask some CMs who work in monorails if you want an honest answer.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Lee, I understand you towing/spinning the company line. It's part of your charm that's been missing around here lately But I find it just simply a convenient excuse WDW management uses to allow their premier attractions to fall into disrepair. It's basically bull.>> Sorry had the European Premiere of Ratatouille last night so couldn't respond to this until today. It is a delicate balacing act between meeting guests' expectations and being able to take an E-ticket offline for a lengthy period for refurbishment and updating. I do not agree that MK management are putting guests' safety at risk as a significant amount of maintenance is done after-hours as has always been. Management do not have the ability to overrule safety closures. I'm sure you know that Spirit. Disrepair/poor show is a different issue. I'm not convinced that MK has found the right balance in the past but the recent changes at iasw and POTC (and now HM) highlight that something has changed. Is it enough? I can't comment as I probably visit MK less than any other of the 11 parks in the world.
Originally Posted By leemac <<There are plans at Imagineering that would involve 2 tracks...one based on the classic version thats more family friendly and a second track that is alittle more adult based. >> I'd love to know where you got that priceless nonsense from. There is absolutely no plan whatsoever for two separate tracks. MK is a family park and will be as long as current management at both WDW and WDI agree on that fact. The notion of a "more adult" experience at MK shows how little you understand how WDW works.
Originally Posted By leemac <<There are some grand plans for Florida's space Mountain but if people like Phil Holmes keep getting in the way of imagineering we are never going to see cool stuff in the parks and eventually people are going to stop coming because everything is so stale. >> I love comments like this. The fan boy who can pass comment without any idea who is actually responsible or how WDW is actually structured. The notion that Phil has any control whatsoever over either the finances available to him or the future attraction mix is laughable. MK is the cash cow of WDW and is being used to support the other three parks that have floundered in the past and recovered recently (DAK and Epcot to a degree) and are floundering (D-MGM). Don't you think he would love to be able to spend all of the profit and cash flow that his park generates? Of course he would but it is being used elsewhere in the World. Attraction mix is determined by the executive management team at WDW. Phil is a member of that but so are a host of others who have more sway. He uses the available funding as he feels appropriate. You can disagree with what we does do with it (i.e. additional funding for after-hours ticketed events and local entertainment) but nailing the lack of new attractions at Phil's door is unfounded.
Originally Posted By Mr X >>There are plans at Imagineering that would involve 2 tracks...one based on the classic version thats more family friendly and a second track that is alittle more adult based.<< Hard to believe. Even if there are "plans" of some sort, I hardly think they would be advanced in any way. And not even because of what Lee said (which very well could be true, but because of the simple fact that if one coaster is that much cooler than the other, there will be no customers whatsoever for the "lame" version...assuming it is similar as you claim, there still will be height requirements and such so no motivation for parents to take little ones on the "kiddie" version...which actually MIGHT work if you think about it...a VERY tame option similar to goofy's coaster so the little ones can say "I rode space mountain" proudly. But a version similar to "as is", and another track with more of a Paris vibe? That would never work. Complete waste of money.
Originally Posted By Skellington88 I guess its time for WDW's "executive management team" to be shown the door and replaced with people who know how to properly run a theme park operation.
Originally Posted By Mr X I doubt anyone but us hardcore fans would care, customers and management alike, as long as the bucks keep rolling in. Sad but true.
