Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 The fact that our resident WDI 'insider' hasn't come here and posted a defense of the attraction and the folks who worked on it -- Bob ZAlk was producer, but it all falls under Jacobson and Fitzgerald ultimately -- does worry me that this is the final product.
Originally Posted By mousermerf About it being a ghost.. the creepy looming skeletal remains of all the old lighting effects and scenery doesn't do much to lighten the mood either.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<"I guess this is just unprecedented." I wish, but there is lots of precedents with crappy re-dos at EPCOT. What would have been unprecenented is if they had hit a home run.>>> jonvn, you should be ashamed. lol
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I will reserve judgement until I, ME, MYSELF, yours truly, rides it. Anyone who posts a "review" of anything without riding it first is BLOWING HOT AIR. CASE in POINT: There was sooooooo much negative publicity about Expedition Everest before it opened. I happened to get down there the first week it was soft opened. It was and is the most amazing coaster I have ever been on, and I have been on a few. You people who are all getting your drawers in a wad without seeing it first hand are doing yourself and everyone else a dis-service. Yeah okay, maybe it will stink, but to claim it stinks without riding it first is stupid.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Of course those of you who actually know people on the inside, like Spirit of 74, are excepted. You guys may have VALID information that no one else is privy to. Savvy?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I love Captain Jack's ... savvy the great food and generally quiet atmosphere. Perhaps, you should check it out on your upcoming visit Jon. It likely won't disappoint as much as SSE apparently has.
Originally Posted By jonvn Where is Captain Jacks, and what do they serve? I plan on eating in the cheapest manner possible the entire trip. We just went to Disneyland, and the cost for food was ridiculous. Thankfully, the portions are also too large, so we're going to split everything we get when we go. I suspect that SSE will be fine for us. I thought it was a bit lame in the first place.
Originally Posted By mousermerf It's the little crab-shack sorta place that sticks out of the dock near the Downtown Disney marina. It's got good food, and i think Manhattan style clam chowder (meaning it's red, not white).
Originally Posted By jonnyrzone420 I rode SSE this afternoon. I thought the changes were really neat. I like the touch screen interaction during the decent, it looks like they might change the final product, but with the wall coming down really soon, who knows. Im sure this is common knowledge by now, but a cast member said today that feb. 18th was the official grand opening.
Originally Posted By ChiMike My disappointment over this rehab really motivates me to come out of the woodwork and share my pov. I and others led popular sentiment back in roughly 2003 (before SaveDisney) over how we felt that WDI had reached a point where it needed a complete housekeeping. That, in our view, years of poisonous leadership had allowed for a bunch of untalented, out-of-touch, technocrats to squirm their way into decision-making roles. That - - back-slapping self-satisfaction, infighting, jockeying for the travel channel and/or latest Disney "expert" book, dinners at Napa Rose, internet leaking, etc. had become very important and that creating universally loved, long-term, financially-sound, additions to the theme park empire was no longer the top priority for reporting to work everyday. Understandably so, considering the majority who continued to cash their paychecks where incapable of such creations (regardless of financial limitations). So, not to be as crass as saying "I told you so" - again - here I am with another example of the technocrats flexing their "expert" creative muscles, getting those creative juices flowing, and AGAIN leaving the theme park consumer with LESS than they had prior to the update. With a less memorable presentation, a less ambitious presentation, and a presentation that will not have the shelf life one would expect it to have on the third revision. There was high hope that a housecleaning was coming with Steve and John but it really has fizzled out. Like WDFA, there are still way too many people at WDI making decisions, having influence, who frankly in my personal opinion have no business being anywhere near a theme park. Some folks carry such a minority set of tastes on what has mass appeal, that are so incompatible with Disney's mainstream guest, that every judgment made seems to fly in the face of what made Disney - Disney. What made WDW - WDW. What led to the huge successes and advances for WDP&R in the 60s and early 90s. I was the first to admit how a virtual environment was employed (finally) superbly with the two Nemo attractions. DL subs is a clean example of how you take an old facility and upgrade it and bring it into the 21st century. How technology can support the need for a way to effectively present a show. In this case the video storytelling medium was perfect for Nemo and friends. Monster's Laugh Floor (I only saw very early soft opening in mid Nov 2006) would be, imo, the complete opposite. A horrible, incompetent choice for the Monster's characters. See DCA or TDL for the right way. So, this brings me to SSE. First, for everything up to 180 top, the work on existing sets SHOULD HAVE BEEN something that Orlando had been doing for years. This is yet another reason why DL is in such better shape that WDW. Florida is supposed to have a local WDI team. Work like this shouldn't require some lengthy rehab. Yet this is where we have been for the last decade. This is nothing new. WDW has to now do things like Small World, HM, 1st 1/2 of SSE. Second, there is no excuse that 25 years later, now having created parks globally, having 40+ new attractions under their belt since 1982; that the guest is left with what one will now see on SSE's decent. The screen and presentation is the lamest thing I have seen since SGE & JIYI v2. I can't fathom how Siemens signed off on this. This is typical technocratic nonsense. Same old. Same old. Relying on video to carry an attraction. In this case the climax and final act of the attraction. It –IS- a shame since the beginning of the attraction is sparkling again, the new scenes in the lead up to 180 top looks great and that there was so much promise with a corporate sponsor and an extended downtime. I truly believe that for the last several years Disney has reached a point where some people wouldn't know how to design an attraction without video or film. Just because it worked for Spiderman doesn't mean it works for every other theme park adventure, especially not for the last 5 minutes of Spaceship Earth.
Originally Posted By ChiMike People love to cite WED's over reliance of AAs from the buid-up of 1963-1984. I would say the same one-dimensional toolbox is in full-play with this non-magical, nightmarish video screen addiction.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Welcome back, Mike. The Spirit truly missed your intelligent, articulate presence. I don't understand why folks like Tom and Eric still wield the power they do when it's so obvious they are out of touch with what makes Disney's parks so special and unique. They have more to do with the WDW disasters of late than anyone. Why they continue to hold onto their 'leadership' positions says so much about the cliquish nature of WDI, which would be fine if it were a private club ... but it isn't.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 It seems that Eric works better w/ Kathy as Show Producer than w/ Tom. Eric was there non stop for SMALL, Pirates and Mansion and look what happened to them. It seems Tom had WAAAAAAY to much influence on SSE.
Originally Posted By jkayjs Well I guess I'll find out for myself tomorrow nite. We leave in the am and have the CP package late afternoon. This gives us a little time between CP & Illuminations. SSE is usually the last thing we do before leaving the park when we don't stay for Illuminations. I have actually skipped the posts that talked about the actual show elements. I want to make my own opinion based exclusively on how/how not emersive the experience is. If I'm disappointed I want it to be because "it didn't do it for me". It is very difficult not to be influenced by preconceived negative ideas. Given the fact that I always go on SSE there is no reason to assume that the review of someone else would keep me from doing so. That is why I love that TDLFAN always warns folks with his spoiler alerts. Forums like this and others are the new "focus groups". But instead of giving you a paper to fill out @ the end they just come to these sites. If anything these reviews may be more helpful since you have a while to digest the experience giving a truer measure of repeatability/recommendability. So we'll see how we "feel" when we leave the ride because for me that is what decides if I go again. Of course given that we are frozen here in the midwest and the ER was hidious yesterday I may like anything served up in 80+ weather.
Originally Posted By mousermerf Over at Magic, a person talked to Jim MacPhee when they encountered him at the park. His response to a mention of fans/websites was really interesting to me.. because he acknolwedged the ranting from folks like yours truly against the new SSE, and referred to it by saying "they're passionate." Not fans boys, not loons, not crazy people, but passionate. The way the story is told, he didn't frame it as negative at all. That makes me happy. At least someone cares and thinks the fans aren't some mass of uneducated idiots who don't understand the art. I dont happen to think many in Imagineering share his view.
Originally Posted By jonvn OH well. I'm sure now that Eisner and Pressler are gone, it will all be better...that's all we heard for several years.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror I rode it a few days ago. I've got nothing to add, but my echo of utter disapointment regarding the second half of the ride. There are wonderful enhancements until that point - the articulation in the AA's, the staging, new costuming and coloring/lighting choices. But you get to a point and literally think "This is where they stopped spending both money and creative energy." There's no excuse for the underthought little cartoon video. That was just embarrassing.
