Originally Posted By FerretAfros I could be wrong, but I think what he is trying to say is that nobody is perfect. It is impossible to expect a batter to hit home run every time, or your child to get a 100 on every test. Sure, there are going to be some bumps. They have always been there, but they have been fixed over time. He isn't saying that they should do the same quality work that they did in the 50's. He's saying that they screwed up in the 50's too, even with the seemingly immortal Walt directing them. Some things will work and others won't. Apparently, this idea falls into the second category.
Originally Posted By leobloom They were learning the ropes in the 50's. They should have the theme park business figured out by now. Above all else, they should have learned what makes for a successful attraction. I'm beginning to have my doubts that they know what they're doing. And the problem isn't that they're coming home with 95's or 90's on their tests---to borrow your analogy. These last few years, with a few exceptions (a couple of tests they studied extra hard for and just happened to be in their favorite subjects---like mountain roller-coasters), their grades have taken a nose-dive.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Roadtrip, are you suggesting that Disney attractions in 2007 shouldn't be more ambitious/advanced/successful than attractions in 1955 when WED was pioneering the field of Imagineering?>> No. I'm just saying they can't all be Pirates, or Tower or Terror, or Expedition Everest. Among other things, there is no way Disney could afford to build every one of their attractions at that level. And there are times when they strive for that level, they put their best effort forward, and they fail to a certain extent. I think Mission Space is a fantastic attraction. To me it is a totally unique experience and an example of just how creative WDI can be. But the general consensus is that it is something of a failure. No matter how hard they try, they just aren't going to please everyone every time. I also think that some folks here like to complain no matter what. People here have been more or less dumping on SSE while at the same time saying COP absolutely has to be preserved. I love the Carousel, but SSE in my opinion is significantly greater in scope and execution than the Carousel is. If they had decided to radically change SSE, the same people that are here complaining that they didn't to enough to plus it would be outraged at how Disney destroyed a classic. There is only one thing you can say for sure about the Uber Fans... they aren't going to like ANYTHING Disney does.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I could be wrong, but I think what he is trying to say is that nobody is perfect. It is impossible to expect a batter to hit home run every time, or your child to get a 100 on every test. Sure, there are going to be some bumps. They have always been there, but they have been fixed over time>> Exactly. No sports star has a great game every game. No rock star puts out a great CD every time. No automobile company puts out a great car with each and every effort. To expect that somehow Disney could do what no one else can do is just not realistic.
Originally Posted By leobloom <There is only one thing you can say for sure about the Uber Fans... they aren't going to like ANYTHING Disney does.> That's just not true. Many uber-fans liked Everest. Many like Soarin. Many like Philharmagic. Every review I've seen has commented on how well the first 1/2 of SSE was refurbed. Is there something wrong with guests/fans/whoever expecting the descent to measure up to the rest of the ride?
Originally Posted By jonvn <There is only one thing you can say for sure about the Uber Fans... they aren't going to like ANYTHING Disney does.> This is the excuse they use to shovel garbage at the public. I've not seen this yet. I was never thrilled with the original anyway, kind of dull, actually. The top part was cool, but otherwise, it was never that great. I'll see it in a few weeks. I'm sure it's going to be good enough. Nothing stunning, but good enough.
Originally Posted By pheneix >>>Plus, there are some of us who love WDW very much who realize that Disney is not going to hit it out of the park with every new attraction they open.<<< Spaceship Earth is Walt Disney World's most popular ride. It has been since Epcot opened in 1982, and will continue to after it reopens. There is absolutely no reason to let the face of the Walt Disney World resort be in the state it is right now.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Spaceship Earth is Walt Disney World's most popular ride. It has been since Epcot opened in 1982, and will continue to after it reopens. >> LOL. So, just make stuff up and hope it sticks? SSE hasn't been the most popular EPCOT attraction in years. It's been passed up by Test Track and Soarin. The last couple of times I went, SSE was a complete walk-on. The only reason there was even a line was because they had to keep stopping the ride to load disabled guests. Having been an EPCOT visitor for a couple of decades now, I am able to recall a time when the line for SSE was a thing to be reckoned with. It hasn't been like that for years, and it's probably not ever going to be that way again.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << They were learning the ropes in the 50's. They should have the theme park business figured out by now. Above all else, they should have learned what makes for a successful attraction. >> Yup, the standard philosophy that what worked back then will work now. That's not the case. You always have to try new things. Businesses that stick to the tried and true without any effort to do something new usually fail.
Originally Posted By pheneix >>>SSE hasn't been the most popular EPCOT attraction in years. It's been passed up by Test Track and Soarin. The last couple of times I went, SSE was a complete walk-on. The only reason there was even a line was because they had to keep stopping the ride to load disabled guests.<<< And you sir, are not acknowledging the simple numbers that make my claim fact. You would be correct in saying that Test Track and Soarin are higher rated attractions in guest satisfaction surveys, but simply are not even capable of attaining the guest throughput that SSE sees every day. SSE's OHRC is over 1000 guests per hour higher than Test Track or Soarin. In addition, SSE's prime location at the front of the park means that every single one of the 30,000 plus guests that visit Epcot every day will walk right by it. Most of them are usually intrigued by what they see and stop by. The only part of the argument I screwed up with is that Pirates of the Carribean recently set the yearly attendance record for any Disney attraction property wide this fiscal year, thus making it more popular than SSE. Still, so many of our guests are exposed to SSE that anything less than the absolutely best that we have to offer is unacceptable for the venue.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << SSE's OHRC is over 1000 guests per hour higher than Test Track or Soarin. >> SSE hasn't operated at that capacity in years. Most times, it's a walk-on with empty cars making the time travel trip on a regular basis. And it's also been plagued with lengthy stoppages because it has a lot of appeal with the wheelchair set. My last couple of SSE trips have been miserable experiences stopping and starting dozens of times throughout the ride while they load guests with disabilities.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 I was never aware that a ride's popularity was determined by how many people can ride it in any given period. I'm also not buying that anybody actually believes that.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I would define the most popular as the one with the most people on it. Since SSE has the ability to have more people ride it during one day than Soarin', I would say it has the ability to be much more popular. When was the last time anybody saw a wait for SSE that was over an hour? Ever? Even when the park opened and it was very popular, it never reached this level because it was able to maintain a level closer to the demand of the ride. Just because there are empty seats in the ride doesn't mean its still not beating the pants off of the other attractions. I don't have any numbers to work off of so this is all speculation, but I would assume that half of the SSE cars could be empty, but it would still put more people through in an hour than Soarin'. Soarin's miserably slow moving line can attest to the fact that it really doesn't handle large crowds too well. When an attraction can only handle so many people her hour, while another one has consistantly higher numbers, I would call the other more popular, even if the line is shorter and people don't call it a "must see". If they are in fact seeing it, I would say they are voting on popularity with their feet.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 I understand what you are saying. But how many people go on a quick entry ride like SSE simply because the line for Soarin is too long? If all rides had the same ability to handle equal numbers at the same time, then you could say one was the more popular. Not that I want to bring back A,B,C,D and E tickets, but if we still had to surrender a ticket to go on a ride, that to me would be a better indicator of popularity. It would also make figuring profitableness for the various rides easier.
Originally Posted By leobloom <<Yup, the standard philosophy that what worked back then will work now. That's not the case. You always have to try new things. Businesses that stick to the tried and true without any effort to do something new usually fail.>> Don't misrepresent what I said. I never said they shouldn't "try new things." But as designers of theme parks, they should have learned what people expect with Disney theme parks. They should also realize why certain rides have remained popular for decades. Even if every attraction built by the old WDI wasn't an instant classic, they seemed to have a higher batting average. Or do you think future generations will be going to Stitch's Mistake, Monsters Inc, Soarin, etc.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << But as designers of theme parks, they should have learned what people expect with Disney theme parks. >> I would venture to say that the success of Disney parks is largely attributable to attractions that delivered things that people never, ever expected.
Originally Posted By leobloom So what? You could give them a ride that slaps them in the face. They wouldn't it expect it, but they probably wouldn't like it. They expect quality and exciting, immersive environments. SSE's descent doesn't provide either.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> But it's just in previews! They have a sign that says that. So I'm sure there are lots of changes to come, because it officially opens in Feb. I'm just teasing, merf. We've known all along that this thing is finished. It's the Disney apologists who haven't come to terms with it yet. << I'm really confused by your post leobloom. Let me break it down so my very slow brain can grasp your concept. >> We've known all along that this thing is finished. << Exactly who is the we, and how do I get secret insider information like this. Some very reliable people on the boards have said they either didn't know or no it was not complete yet. How do I get to be one of these select "WE" people. >> It's the Disney apologists who haven't come to terms with it yet. << How can you come to terms with something when you don't know for sure how it will turn out. >> Disney apologists << Why must someone that may disagree with you have to have a label assigned to them. From now on I want you to consider me a "Disney Realist". A lot of what I know about WDW comes from everybody else's knowledge on this board. We have our very well known "insiders circle" on this board, plus a large Number of well versed, cultured, and inteligent people who all contribute their opinion. We have folks that are in the parks all the times, and report back with photos and comments. We have folks here that regularly attend Disney parks all over the world. This gives us a very unique chance to compare parks that some of us will never see. This site is owned by a very "hands on" gentleman, and his wife. That makes for an excellent Disney site. Possibly you could try to hold off on the labeling when it's not warranted at the present time. Also, try to remeber that if this is the finished product, and somebody comments that it's not bad or I like it. That in itself does not make them a "Disney Apologist". It only means they have a different opinion. Guess what, I still don't know if this is the finished SSE. I am not apologizing, only stating a fact. There was an earlier thread where folks were speculating if it was finished. This thread is speculating if SSE is finished. There is no real way of knowing unless information starts rolling in to that effect that it done or if the Grand Opening date arrives, and it looks the same.
Originally Posted By leobloom We: merf, myself, etc. Finished: Spirit and Lee over at wdwmagic have said it doesn't look like a lot more is coming. Hence, SSE is finished for all intents and purposes. Apologist: I'm not reading your response because it's too long. This is a Disney discussion board, not a Victorian novel.
Originally Posted By MPierce ^^ Try reading a Victorian novel sometime. You might actually learn something. Spirit said he did not know, and speculated on the ending. I agreed with him. Lee said it's not finished. Unless they have changed positions that's the last I heard from them. I would suggest you go back and reread their post. You see I read each, and every post no matter the length. That's how I learn things. Yes, mousermerf started saying earlier than this thread that he had heard SSE was finished. Frankly I don't know who you are or how much of a working knowledge you have of the inside goings on at Disney. You evidently consider yourself a great source of reliable knowledge. I do not know if SSE is finished, and I still don't have a clue as to the source of your wisdom.
