Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm not for allowing anyone to go to the head of the line when it comes to gaining citizenship. I would give permission to work in the country and nothing else. Right now there is no rule of law because it is impossible to properly police the border. We can't even do it in Iraq to keep terrorists out... why would you possibly think we could do it here? I don't know why this needs to be broken down to Democrat or Republican, but I believe my ideas are very similar to what Bush has proposed. The man finally got SOMETHING right. There is one thing I can guarantee you. If there were thousand of good white English speaking Canadians sneaking across the northern border to come work in the United States, no one would give a damn. There a racism component to all of this and anyone who denies it is blind.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'm not for allowing anyone to go to the head of the line when it comes to gaining citizenship. I would give permission to work in the country and nothing else.>> I would not deny citizenship either. I would just make sure that the guest workers had to go through the same process as anyone else in this country on a temporary work visa to gain citizenship. There would be no "butting in line".
Originally Posted By Lisann22 <<<There a racism component to all of this and anyone who denies it is blind.>>> Agree!
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>If there were thousand of good white English speaking Canadians sneaking across the northern border to come work in the United States, no one would give a damn.<< But what if there were 15 million Canadians living in the US, and they were driving down wages, driving without licenses or insurance, not paying their medical bills, etc.? I would care. I would care even though the Canadians would blend in perfectly, and they speak the same language (well, most of them).
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Yes but IT IS a Mexican National Holiday... and look at what we do to it. That was the point.<< But we do it here, not in Mexico City.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I think virtually everyone on these boards is a descendent of a foreign immigrant (except perhaps for Lisann22 if I remember correctly). Why do we want to slam the door shut after it had been held open for our grandparents and great-grandparents?<< Because there are already 300+ million people living in the US. Or are you saying we don't have enough: sprawl traffic jams pollution high cost of living etc.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>What is wrong with allowing these people in on a visitor basis to work at these jobs? << Because they won't be "visitors". They will stay here until the day they die.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I live in South Florida and if there is a celebration of Cinco de Mayor it is below the radar.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>There are also many jobs that go unfilled because American workers don’t want work that dirty and physically demanding (roofing and meat packing come to mind). << BEEP!! BEEP!! Baloney alert!! These are jobs that Americans used to do. Meat packing is a great case in point. Not too many years ago it paid a living wage to be a meat cutter. But once the illegals arrived on the scene wages fell and the Americans moved on. If you can import enough cheap foreign labor that will under cut wages there is no job that "Americans won't do". This has been well demonstrated in the field of Computer Science. Between offshoring and a flood of cheap, foreign trained engineers that have arrived via H1-B and L1 visas the profession has seen wages tank and college enrollments plummet. I suppose that "Software Engineer" is just another one of those jobs that "Americans won't do".
Originally Posted By fkurucz BTW, population growth in the US is greater than the population growth (in net numbers) than all of the other developed nations COMBINED. And it is primarily driver by immigration. Believe it or not, we actually do let a lot of people legally into the US. Problem is that demand far outstrips supply, hence the super long waiting list to get in.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<These are jobs that Americans used to do. Meat packing is a great case in point. Not too many years ago it paid a living wage to be a meat cutter. But once the illegals arrived on the scene wages fell and the Americans moved on.>> We've always found someone to do our dirty work for us. First it was European Immigrants... then Blacks... now Mexicans. Same song; different verse. Nothing has changed. <<Northern employers in many industries faced strong demand for their products and so had a great need for labor. Their traditional source of cheap labor, European immigrants, dried up in the late 1910s as the coming of World War I interrupted international migration. After the end of the war, new laws limiting immigration to the US would keep the flow of European labor at a low level. Northern employers thus needed a new source of cheap labor, and they turned to Southern blacks>> Snip <<Within the context of this broader turmoil, black migrants did gain entry to new jobs in Northern manufacturing. As in Southern manufacturing, pay differences between blacks and whites working the same job at the same plant were generally small. However, black workers had access to a limited set of jobs and remained heavily concentrated in unskilled laborer positions. Black workers gained admittance to only a limited set of firms, as well. For instance, in the auto industry, the Ford Motor Company hired a tremendous number of black workers, while other auto makers in Detroit typically excluded these workers. Because their alternatives were limited, black workers could be worked very intensely and could also be used in particularly unpleasant and dangerous settings, such as the killing and cutting areas of meat packing plants, foundry departments in auto plants, and blast furnaces in steel plants.>> Source: <a href="http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/maloney.african.american" target="_blank">http://eh.net/encyclopedia/art icle/maloney.african.american</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>We've always found someone to do our dirty work for us. First it was European Immigrants... then Blacks... now Mexicans. Same song; different verse. Nothing has changed. << Rubbish. I remember 10 years ago when most residential construction work in my neck of the woods was done by ordinary Americans. They earned a living wage and it showed. They could afford homes of their own and had nice pick up trucks. Today: The crews are mostly illegals (I can tell by their accents that they are mostly from southern Mexico). They are paid less than half of what Americans used to get ($7 vs. $20/hr). The Americans were displaced, pure and simple. It is even well know that native Louisianans are being displaced as we speak by illegal workers doing the post Katrina reconstruction work. The Americans were told "The Mexicans have arrived" and were let go from their jobs. Pretty sweet, huh?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>We've always found someone to do our dirty work for us. First it was European Immigrants... then Blacks... now Mexicans. Same song; different verse. Nothing has changed. << Anyway, I fail to see how this justifies importing illiterate, mysogynistic, anti-semitic and homophobic immigrants. Their are plenty of unskilled Americans who will do these jobs for a living wage. But they know that the are better off on welfare than competing with illegal immigrants.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Anyway, I fail to see how this justifies importing illiterate, mysogynistic, anti-semitic and homophobic immigrants.>> My we're painting with a broad brush today, aren't we?? I wasn't justifying anything. I was responding to your statement: <<These are jobs that Americans used to do. Meat packing is a great case in point. Not too many years ago it paid a living wage to be a meat cutter. But once the illegals arrived on the scene wages fell and the Americans moved on.>> That scenario has been played out time and again. I’m sure people of British background working the packing plants complained when the German and Italian immigrants arrived and worked for less. I’m sure the German and Italian immigrants complained when southern Blacks arrived and worked for less. And now people are complaining again. We’ve survived it before, we will survive it again. Frankly, periodic influx of cheap labor can serve to keep American industry viable. If they can’t find cheap enough labor here they just shut things down and move it overseas. Would you prefer that? It’s all just a part of the Circle of Life… [Music swells in background…]
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I don't remember Englsh, German or Italian immigrants having walkout and boycotts demanding amnesty. And this all has nothing to do with changing the lerics and title or that National Anthem and singing it in Spanish. Our ancestors either came to this country legally or suffered the concequences. What you are asking for is that the Mexicans NOT suffer the consequences of their ongoing illegal actions. As George Orwell wrote "some pigs are more equal than others".
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe The simple fact is that those protesting ahd changing the National Anthem of the United States have no respect for our laws. THey hang the american flag below the mexican flag, they hang the american flag upside down, they walk out of class and work. I dont get how walking out of class to protest not getting a good education says you want to be in school earning an education. It has nothing to do with race. It is the fact that they want to come here and break our laws. If you come here properly and follow the laws, than go for it. But that is not what is being done and anyone who doesnt see that is simply blind and very foolish.
Originally Posted By AladdinAZ If illegals are so upset about our laws - they should just shut up and go home. Freedom of speech is valued here ~ for people that are here LEGALLY.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy <They might as well change the words. The dang song is un-singable anyway.> See, I feel passionate about that subject. I *love* our Anthem, I think it's beautiful and very moving and powerful. I would be bothered if they changed the music or lyrics. And I love to sing it "to myself" sometimes.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << I *love* our Anthem, I think it's beautiful and very moving and powerful. I would be bothered if they changed the music or lyrics. And I love to sing it "to myself" sometimes.>> Personally I would far prefer that America the Beautiful was our anthem, but I respect your feelings.
