Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Folks, we as a nation is slipping towards a third world nation.<< Bingo. Something to keep in mind. The people who invading our country are not "middle class" Mexicans. These people are the dregs of Mexican society. Mexico has no need for them and dumps them on us. We are importing wholesale poverty. This will in the long haul put incredible stress on our welfare society. If you think public schools are overcrowded and underfunded today, just wait.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>My biggest concerns about illegal immigration aren't about their race or language, it's about their need for social services when they get here. The current rough estimate is about eleven million, mostly clustered in CA and the southwest. That's a helluva lot, and as progressive as I consider myself to be, I'm all in favor of shipping some back. And I'm not too sympathetic to their 'demands' of our resources. << True. We can't be Mexico's HMO.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj Does anyone remember the story of Thanksgiving, when the native Americans shared their bounty from the earth with the aliens from England? And then provided them the assistance to survive the harsh winter that followed? Maybe the native Americans should have just built a wall across the beach?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Maybe the native Americans should have just built a wall across the beach?<< They should have. The Europeans invaded and took their country from them.
Originally Posted By gadzuux That's just 'manifest destiny'. It was a foregone conclusion that european explorers and settlers would discover and migrate to the north american continent. There's no guilt or blame to be ascribed to this natural progression of events.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I'd characterize it as "class-ism" more than racism. I think a lot of what most people consider "racism" is more about social class than race. << I think that is a good point. We are pretty egalitarian in the US. Most of us have a great deal of commonality. We went to high school, ate at McDonalds. Most of us own the homes we live in. It is hard for us to comprehend the social chasm that exists between us and most illegal immigrants. Most of these people have less than a 3rd grade education. They grew up in cardboard shacks. They have no concept of personal hygiene. They lack the "enlightened" concepts that we take for granted: equality of men and women. They grew up in a society were racism is accepted and considered normal. They grew up in an anti-semitic society. My point is that these people will never integrate into American society. Even there kids will have a hard time.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>That's just 'manifest destiny'. It was a foregone conclusion that european explorers and settlers would discover and migrate to the north american continent. There's no guilt or blame to be ascribed to this natural progression of events.<< I'm not trying to lay a guilt trip on anyone. Just pointing that the Native Americans would have been better off had they turned back the Europeans. Had Moctezuma (that's Montezuma for you gringos) acted quickly, he could have routed Cortes in what is today known as Veracruz. He did not act and was deposed by his subjects. Cuitlahuac and Cuautemoc did react, but too late. Cuautemoc did defeat Cortes in Tacuba, but failed to finish him off. Cortes retreated, licked his wounds and made allies with the Aztec's enemies. The rest is history.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << My point is that these people will never integrate into American society. Even there kids will have a hard time. >> This is not my observation. I work side by side with the 37,000+ non-citizens who serve in our military. I can't tell much difference between them and their counterparts who have citizenship -- except that non-citizens tend to have a better work ethic and seem more committed to completing their assigned tasks. Outside of work, they integrate just fine. I am proud to serve with them. I don't think it is much different in any other organization.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip << Something to keep in mind. The people who invading our country are not "middle class" Mexicans. These people are the dregs of Mexican society. Mexico has no need for them and dumps them on us.>> If you replace “Mexican†with “German†or “Italian†or whatever, that pretty well describes the people that came to America from Europe. It wasn’t the middle class looking to get out of Europe either. It was pretty much the dregs of European society. <<"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!">> Source: "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T he_New_Colossus</a>" It's pretty damn clear that plaque needs to come off the Statue of Liberty pronto!!
Originally Posted By trailsend >>>> Yes the tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door<<< That did not mean they were to get a free ride with all the benefits taxpaying citizens provide with free medical, welfare, food stamps, etc, etc, . . .
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<That did not mean they were to get a free ride with all the benefits taxpaying citizens provide with free medical, welfare, food stamps, etc, etc, . . .>> I don't remember having said that they should!
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I work side by side with the 37,000+ non-citizens who serve in our military.<< But the military is fussy about who they take. For one thing, you can't get in if you are illiterate.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >><<That did not mean they were to get a free ride with all the benefits taxpaying citizens provide with free medical, welfare, food stamps, etc, etc, . . .>> I don't remember having said that they should!<< But now they do. Open borders and the welfare state are incompatible. If we are going to let everyone in we can kiss it goodbye. 100 years ago there was no welfare state. And they certainly didn't educate the immigrant's in their native languages.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>>>I work side by side with the 37,000+ non-citizens who serve in our military.<< But the military is fussy about who they take. For one thing, you can't get in if you are illiterate.<< And besides, the military doesn't take illegals. So these non citizens are legal immigrants, most likely the cream of the crop. Not illiterate 3rd world peasants.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj ^^ OK, live in your fantasy world. The military takes whoever will sign up.
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Originally Posted By Beaumandy Nothing is more insulting than comparing these illegal alien invaders from Mexico and Latin America to European imigrants who came to America legaly thru Ellis Island so they could be AMERICANS. If your not pissed by having to speak Spanish in this country your missing the destruction of the greatest country in the world.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS Not everyone can join the army; there are stiff requirements. An applicant must have high school diploma or an equivalent degree, no felony convictions and a passing score on an initial aptitude test. A surprising number of people who apply are turned down for the job. The Army is currently looking for more older and college educated recruits <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeye/buildmeup/join.html" target="_blank">http://www.cbc.ca/passionateey e/buildmeup/join.html</a>
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Darn and we were doing so well. Who went and wrote that message that got admined? I'm angry!!! Well not really.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda <<<You can seal the border by building a wall. It worked in Israel and it has worked at our border near San Diego.>>> Can you then explain the number of tunnels that recently been found UNDER the wall? Also, if it's so secure, why is the Minutemen Militia building fences to the East of San Diego? Yet another case of the lack of fact checking!
