Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe <<Most of these people have less than a 3rd grade education.>> Concidering our school system, most 4th graders dont have a 3rd grade education, illegal immigrant or not.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe <<The military takes whoever will sign up.>> Um no. They did not take me. Said I was too fat.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe <<why is the Minutemen Militia building fences to the East of San Diego>> Those guys are awesome. If I could send money to them I would. We need more people like them. North, south, east and west.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Can you then explain the number of tunnels that recently been found UNDER the wall?>> A few that were shut down pretty quick. <<Also, if it's so secure, why is the Minutemen Militia building fences to the East of San Diego? Yet another case of the lack of fact checking!>> The Minutemen are not a militia, even though Bush used that term, which was a mistake on his part. They are talking about building walls on provate property that is being over run by law breaking Mexicans, Latinos and even Muslims from the ME. The people who are against the wall are simply not serious about this problem and will have only themselves to blame when our country becomes Little Baja.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda Actually Beau, some of those tunnels have been there quite a while (a few for several years)... I know because I live in the San Diego area and have read and watched the local news stories. If I recall correctly Beau, you live in the Northwest, Washington State. So you don't exactly get the same amount of news coverage about the San Diego area as those that live here, just as we don't get the same amount of Seattle news coverage. And to the fences being built by the Militia... the point isn't whether they're on public or private property, the point was that you said "You can seal the border by building a wall. It worked in Israel and it has worked at our border near San Diego" which I was countering. I was not debating the need for a wall. I was pointing out your factual inaccuracies. As I said earlier, I live in the Dan Diego area; I read and watch the news daily from multiple sources and read, see and hear what's going on here. If you're going to talk about what's going on in San Diego County, you had better do it after living here for a spell! As for immigration reform, I don't care where immigrants come from, as long as they come here legally. Now, before those from both sides jump down my throat, the current immigration laws are not the best. It shouldn't take 10, 20, 30 years to immigrate. I'm not for amnesty, BUT, is it really feasible financially or practically to deport all of the illegal immigrants? There are many sub issues that need to be addressed as well, such as, I don't buy the argument that the immigrants do the jobs that Citizens won't. Citizens would, IF they were paid decent wages, but then if they were paid decent wages, could you and I afford the products they support? Also, what to do with the children who were born here (according to law, legal US citizens), yet the parents are illegal? Do they all get deported; to the kids become virtual orphans because the parents are deported? Schools and other public services can't financially support the estimated 11 to 14 million illegal immigrants. One argument I've heard is that illegal immigrants pay taxes. Well, they pay sales taxes. If they used a phony social security number, they may pay income taxes. But if they work in any number of jobs that pay cash under the table, they don't pay any income taxes. Also, they probably don't pay much, if any, in property taxes. If ALL workers, legal or illegal paid their fair share of taxes, we might then be able to pay for the public services we such desperately need. As for their contribution to the economy, when I lived in Georgia, I would go to a check cashing place to cash my weekend job check, and I would see people in there every week not cashing checks, but wiring money back to their family in what ever country they were from. THOUSANDS of dollars, money that wasn’t put in U.S. banks, or to buy U.S. goods, but sent elsewhere. Now, I applaud them for supporting their families, family is the most important thing I believe, however this nullifies their contribution to the U.S. economy, at least as far as purchasing power.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Nothing is more insulting than comparing these illegal alien invaders from Mexico and Latin America to European imigrants<< If only you know, Beau, how that totally outs your true nature. Of course, let's not talk about the FACT that in order to immigrate to the US in the 1800's, you pretty much just had to show up at Ellis Island, register, submit to a cursory health exam (and be quarantined for a time, if necessary) and you were in. Nowadays, it's nothing like that. For most people, there is no legal method of immigrating whatsoever. Don't believe me? Go to the USCIS website and see if it's possible for a poor person from Mexico can immigrate if they have no family already here as citizens.
Originally Posted By AladdinAZ Yeah, right, I'm sure it was a breeze for the immigrants in the 1880's! They didn't have Any problems, did they? And to compare what was legal in the 1880's to now is ridiculous. Certainly the immigration laws had to change as the U.S. grew. It's certainly NOT the same today for European Immigrants today, as it was in the 1880's. In fact, it is YOU statement that totally outs YOUR true nature. Your comparisson is about as ridiculous a comparisson that someone else on these boards comparred the Civil Rights Rally's of the 1960's to Illegal Aliens today! On CNN, just now, they interviewed one of the people who has gone from state to state to set up some of the pro-illegal alien demonstrations. And this person said he felt it was racism (yes, the CNN story said RACISM) that motivates people who want the current immigration law enforced. NOW, before admin comes in and redlines this post, let me emphasize that this was a story on CNN about this organizer of these pro illegal alien demonstrations who brought up the UGLY "R" word. Now, let me add, that several post in similar topic here at LP were redlined this morning, because someone accused me of being racist as well! When this happened, I immediately spoke up and because of their false accusations against me. Now, this appears to be a tactic by the Pro-illegal alien demonstrations, calling anyone who opposes them "RACIST". And don't think that they are going to stop using that word, even though it is most slanderous and liable. With all the political correctness band junkies going WAY over the top, this is one thing that I WILL NOT STAND FOR. The current USA immigration laws do limit the number of immigrants into this country in order to protect the citizens of the USA. AND THAT above all, should be the primary concern of our representative is Congress, and State Legistlatures. They are in their positions to represent its constituents. IT IS NOT to represent the people who entered this country illegally!!!
Originally Posted By Beaumandy It's not racism at all. Anyone who throws that word out is doing so as a tactic to shut the debate down because they can't or won't debate the issue honestly. People on the left usually do this when their 45 seconds of talking points goes up in smoke. Edidsyoda, I agree with a lot of your post by the way. # 85 I get this feeling that 90% of us on here agree illegal immigration is a serious problem that needs to be handled in order to save the country. If I lived in California, which I don't, there is no way I would be defending anyone breaking into the country as I watch my state go under. However, we do need to make it much faster to get here to work for these people.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<However, we do need to make it much faster to get here to work for these people. >> Exactly... that is what I've been saying. Not that we should continue with the present system, but we should make it possible for those here to work in the open, pay taxes and minimize the demand for social services. By the way... if someone calls me an idiot I don't worry about it too much or react too strongly because I know it isn't true. Something people might want to think about.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Go to the USCIS website and see if it's possible for a poor person from Mexico can immigrate if they have no family already here as citizens. << I don't have any issue with that. We don't "owe" these people anything. And "the family" part represents one of the biggest problems with amnesty provisions. Most of these currently illegal immigrants that would be granted citizenship would be followed by another four, five or more that would then emigrate over as "family members". It's not racism to be concerned about an influx of over fifty million more people within ten years.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>And "the family" part represents one of the biggest problems with amnesty provisions. Most of these currently illegal immigrants that would be granted citizenship would be followed by another four, five or more that would then emigrate over as "family members".<< That argument would be valid...IF AND ONLY IF: 1. Amnesty were being proposed. 2. Instant citizenship were a result of this alleged amnesty. Neither of these are true. The steps being proposed are as follows: 1. If here less than two years, the immigrant would have to go home and apply for a guest worker visa. If here less than two years but more than five, they would have to go to an US Customs inspection station, register, pay a fine and return. If here more than five years, they can apply for adjustment to a special visa that is NOT PERMANENT RESIDENT status. 2. After six years under the special visa, and after having complied with other strict requirements, only then would the immigrant be eligible to apply or permanent residency after paying additional fines. 3. After five more years, the immigrant can apply for citizenship. The only people a non-citizen immigrant can apply for are spouses and children under 18. A citizen can apply for spouses, children under 18, adult children who are not yet married, parents and siblings...in that order. We're not talking about an instant process. Here's what I understand, though. Most "illegal aliens" have no intention of remaining here permanently anyway. They want to work here, build up a little nest-egg, build a home in their hometown and open a business. That, along with the carrying back to their home countries the idea of a democratic republican form of government and society can only be benefitical to both the US and the countries in question as it stabilizes these countries' economies and governments. Big picture thinking is necessary.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Regardless we have current laws on the books. But I suppose when you don't like a law.. change it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Throughout our history we have frequently changed laws we did not like. The repeal of prohibition was one. Praise the Lord!!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom So are the "new" laws going to only apply to Latin Americans or is anyone suggesting that it be extended to anyone seeking US citizenship?
Originally Posted By imadisneygal ^^^This is a darn good question. While many illegal immigrants to the U.S. are Mexican, there are plenty who aren't. I'll be interested to hear how this is handled.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<So are the "new" laws going to only apply to Latin Americans or is anyone suggesting that it be extended to anyone seeking US citizenship?>> Who knows?? The Latin Americans are expressing an opinion... ANYONE in the U.S. has the right to do that. Whether any legislation is passed in response to it is a huge question. I would assume that any legislation passed would apply to all immigration. As a practical matter though, we don't seem to have huge number of Canadians swimming across the St. Lawrence River in the dead of night.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<The Latin Americans are expressing an opinion... ANYONE in the U.S. has the right to do that. >> The Mexicans are the ONLY ones I have heard anything about that they are DEMANDING amnesty.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^^This is correct. They are not saying: "Can we please stay, we promise to be good".
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>OK, live in your fantasy world. The military takes whoever will sign up.<< From what I have been reading, the military has been dropping their standards somwhat (no doubt due to the unpopularity of the Iraq war), but they do expect recruits to be able to speak, read and write in English. They have to. Anyway, back to your fantasy world.
