Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It seems to me part of this very complex problem is the complete disparity (and thus disconnect) between legal and illegal immigration. It IS hard to come here legally; yet those who come due to poverty, family members already here, US employers recruiting them to come, or whatever reason, find that once they get here they can usually remain, as long as they stay underground.<< Actually most of those people you describe do arrive legally. The problem (for immigrants) is not that we don't let anyone in (we legally let 1 million per year in), its that demand for visas is far greater than 1 million per year. The bottom line is that not everyone who wants to will be able to come legally to the US.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It seems to me this MUST be part of the equation, or the people desperate enough to come here will just continue to do it illegally and remain underground, with all those attendant problems.<< Well, we could always change the rules in order to make very inconvenient for illegals and their employers. If the cost of hiring illegals can be made prohibitive (say through steep fines), then there would be no point for the illegals to comes, since no one would hire them. But as Dabob said: "the people who benefit from low-wage labor and don't want to see it stop will make sure that after all the talk, nothing substantive is done". Therefore there will be no enforcement and no laws with teeth until the citizenry gets fed up and demands change.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Actually most of those people you describe do arrive legally. The problem (for immigrants) is not that we don't let anyone in (we legally let 1 million per year in), its that demand for visas is far greater than 1 million per year.> Just to set the record straight, the people I was describing WERE illegal immigrants. It is not easy for a poor unskilled person to immigrate here today, as cmpaley has said. High-skill people, yes. They make up the bulk of legal immigrants, I believe. So I was talking about making it easier for low skilled or unskilled laborers to come here COMBINED with tougher enforcement against illegal immigration - which I don't hear anyone in Congress talking about. If we had a situation where people coming illegally were (at least sometimes) shipped home, and employers became skittish about hiring them because THEIR butts were on the line legally (the necessary component that I doubt will happen, as I've said), then there would actually be both incentive to immigrate legally, and a mechanism for them to do so. AND they would then be on the books, paying taxes, etc.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The only people who benefit from mass immigration are the wealthy, because it depresses wages>> It would really be a good thing if America got rid of people who were below middle class. They take way more than their share of government provided services and don't pay squat in taxes. If citizenship were restricted to those with a family income above $150K, this country would be a whole lot better than it is now.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>If citizenship were restricted to those with a family income above $150K, this country would be a whole lot better than it is now.<< Sounds like a sure-fire way to ensure a Republican one-party government in perpetuity...until 150k/year becomes the equivalent of $30,000 a year...which won't take long if Republicans remain in power. ;-)
Originally Posted By EdisYoda I guess I'd have to give up my citizenship then as I only make 1/3 of that figure. I've got a better idea, let's ship out everyone who makes OVER $150,000
Originally Posted By fkurucz Well, if the wealthy were willing to pick up the tab for hidden costs of illegals, as opposed to having the middle class getting stuck with them, I might be a litte more understanding.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Why when 50% of the US population doesn't pay any form of Income Tax to begin with. At this point there are more people in the US voting for a living than there are living to vote. Case in point. Look at New Orleans. 60% of the population was on welfare? You have got to be kidding me.
