Originally Posted By Socrates If Disney's management is driven by "utter corporate greed and incompetence", then what would you call Enron? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By dresswhites i can't speak for WDW, as i haven't been there in a while, but in my past few visits to Disneyland i have found it fairly clean. Yes there were exceptions a bottle here and there, but i really didn't notice any downturn in cleanliness. Perhaps, it is because i was custodian at Disneyland for three summers, and even budget cuts and Light Magic confetti, custodial worked very hard to keep the park looking clean. Was it perfect, no paint was fading, different things were in need of repair. but we custodians tried to make the grounds look nice. In my past visit to disneyland, i always see a lot custodians. Almost in everyway i went there was a custodian. and that is how it should be. i can tell though somes guests were just rude when it came to trash. i don't mind if they occasionlly spill something, but there is no other word for it other than rude, when they throw trash in the bushes, mr toad's mouth, splash mountain kettle, or into the river. i mean cleaning up after Fantasmic some nights could be disgusting. whole trays of food, and junk. ick. Maybe at Disney World, custodial isn't as thourough, but at Disneyland there is still alot of pride in that department.
Originally Posted By Megara Yes I agree, people are disgusting. Some guests have the view that “oh, this is Disneyland/WDW, I have paid my money to get in and Disney OWES MEâ€. I’ve witnessed gangs of teenagers being idiots to parents watching their children wreck stuff. It will never end – it’s a lost cause.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<This is just a bit strong. C'mon now.>> No. I stand behind my words. <<There have been budget cuts in custodial areas and I even agree that they've gone too far in those cuts.>> That's a good start. At least you aren't blind to the realities. <<However, "utter corporate greed and incompetence" makes it sound like they get pleasure out of it. >> I doubt anyone gets pleasure out of it, perse. You're reading something into it that wasn't intended. Now, do some people get bonuses every time they cut the quality of the product to achieve a quick uptick in numbers? Do they take pleasure in putting the money down on a new home in Bay Hill or Windermere or taking a trip to Italy or Greece or buying a boat? That's something else ... <<If such people exist at Disney, I've never met them.>> How many execs have you met? How many do you know? How many consultants do you know? Can you get the true powers on the telephone? When you can answer 'yes' to the above questions, I doubt you'll see things the same magical way, SS.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Guests are clearly contributing to this problem in a big way which should cause management to increase staffing not cut it.>> Gee, if that is so common sense obvious to people on 'an insignificant internet fan site' why can't folks like Jay Rasulo and Al Weiss see it? <<Cleaniness, pristine grounds and attractions used to be the standard of all Disney parks.>> Well, they still are ... at ALL Disney parks that Disney does NOT own! <<I guess most people don't care about Disney they way some of us do. >> A truer statement would be that most Disney park execs don't care about the Disney Legacy and name (NOT THE BLEEPING BRAND!) the way many of us do!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<If Disney's management is driven by "utter corporate greed and incompetence", then what would you call Enron?>> What would I call it? A disaster brought about due to political ideology mistaking capitalism for democracy.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Yes I agree, people are disgusting. Some guests have the view that “oh, this is Disneyland/WDW, I have paid my money to get in and Disney OWES MEâ€. I’ve witnessed gangs of teenagers being idiots to parents watching their children wreck stuff. It will never end – it’s a lost cause.>> I won't accept that. I can't. I refuse to believe that humanity is devolving. Bad behavior -- whether it's an idiot and their brats defacing a theme park attraction or hotel room or an executive using his/her power maliciously etc ... -- just can't be tolerated. Call me naive, but I believe that most people are good or can be.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> even budget cuts and Light Magic confetti, custodial worked very hard to keep the park looking clean << >> alot of pride in that department << I know a lot of custodials at WDW, and I am proud of them and the work they do. It's important work. I just wish their numbers were greater. A great inhibitor of trash on the ground is the fact that there's none there to begin with. Once a piece of trash remains on the ground for long, it's more likely that it will be followed by another one, and then another.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy ----------------------------- >> This is just a bit strong. C'mon now. << >> No. I stand behind my words. << Please, go right ahead and stand by them. But your conclusion is wrong, unless you yourself can say that you've actually observed these management types giggling and rubbing their hands with glee as they reduce the staffing numbers to low levels. You're lumping too much, too stongly, into too simple a statement. And if you come back with a plain old "No I'm not" to this, I won't be answering it. ----------------------------- >> Do they take pleasure in putting the money down on a new home in Bay Hill or Windermere or taking a trip to Italy or Greece or buying a boat? << I gotta tell you, I sure would. >> How many execs have you met? How many do you know? How many consultants do you know? Can you get the true powers on the telephone? << I work with some of these types every day. The ones I know are dedicated, Disney people who struggle every day to get the quality done with the resources they've got. You diminish them. ----------------------------- Is there someone way up high who's actually pulling these plugs with glee? Don't know. If so, I've never met them or observed them. Unless you have yourself, then you shouldn't be assuming that they exist just because staffing numbers are low.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> I refuse to believe that humanity is devolving. << I sometimes wonder.... Yesterday I was working near SSE. Looking over, I spotted a young guest actually walking around in the center of the fountain where the Epcot Crystal spires used to be. Couldn't believe it. I went over to ask the young guest to "Please come out of there . . . for your safety!" As I walk over there I notice why the kid is out there. Dad is over on the side taking his picture. As I approached, both Dad and kid took off in the other direction. Yahoos.
Originally Posted By danyoung >But your conclusion is wrong, unless you yourself can say that you've actually observed these management types giggling and rubbing their hands with glee as they reduce the staffing numbers to low levels.< Corporate greed and incompetance doesn't imply that they're all Snidely Whiplashes rubbing their hands with glee. Corporate greed only means that middle level management cares much more about the numbers on a spreadsheet than the quality of the product that they're putting out. And greed and incompetance are manifested by upper management that allows the concerns of the shareholders in the short term to override both the value of their product and the long term benefits to those very same shareholders.
Originally Posted By Kimrue I read somewhere that a LOOONG time ago, MK used to be closed on mondays or something like that for maintenance. I could be wrong so don't jump on me if I'm incorrect. I personally think that would be a great idea, if each park was closed one day during the week to clean up the place. It's disgusting what kind of people are visiting the parks and completely destroying it.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy I don't think the Florida parks ever had a regular day that they were closed. Disneyland on the other hand was closed I believe 2 days a week from the start and for some time. Monday/Tuesday? Maybe this is what you're thinking of.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> Corporate greed and incompetance doesn't imply that they're all Snidely Whiplashes rubbing their hands with glee << I guess we'll have to agree that we have different definitions of the term "Corporate Greed." I try not to use terms that can be received emotionally. The word "greed" to me raises that emotional response. Some persons might term the same thing that some would call "Corporate greed" as instead "Fiscal responsibility," which is the same thing only sounds nicer.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I read somewhere that a LOOONG time ago, MK used to be closed on mondays or something like that for maintenance.< Interesting that this should come up, as the weekly Disney Insider email just covered this. Disneyland was closed on Mondays from opening till 1957. Then they were closed Mondays and Tuesdays from 1958 to 1985. They started 7 days open in 1986. The other Disney parks, including all parks in WDW, have always been open 7 days. I'd rather have the park closed 1 day a week than to see painters and groundskeepers climbing all over the property during regular business hours.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I refuse to believe that humanity is devolving. Bad behavior -- whether it's an idiot and their brats defacing a theme park attraction or hotel room or an executive using his/her power maliciously etc ... -- just can't be tolerated. Call me naive, but I believe that most people are good or can be. < yes I too have the "father Flanigan' approach -- but even I am starting to realize that the % that makes up 'most' is shrinking some
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Corporate greed and incompetance doesn't imply that they're all Snidely Whiplashes rubbing their hands with glee. Corporate greed only means that middle level management cares much more about the numbers on a spreadsheet than the quality of the product that they're putting out. And greed and incompetance are manifested by upper management that allows the concerns of the shareholders in the short term to override both the value of their product and the long term benefits to those very same shareholders. < agrred, remembering that a corporation is not a animate entity, it is an organizational philosophy that permeates the behaviots on individuals within it.
Originally Posted By kpwdwfan I am concerned about the up keep of the parks as anyone but closing a park one day a week would create much larger crowds in the open parks during many parts of the year and create even more of a problem then there already is. Correct me if I'm wrong but if you go back ten fifteen years, the problems of lights out, paint chipping and fading gum stuck everywhere, i.e. Splash Mountain were much, much less of a problem. If you saw a problem one day, then next time you visited the problem would have been rectified. Even a small problem like a light out on Main St. would have been fixed by the next day. During most of they year the parks are closed for at least eight to ten hours which in my opinion gives ample opportunity to fix these situations. I don't think time is the problem it's adequate staffing.
Originally Posted By danyoung kpwdwfan, there used to be a philosophy of fixing before need. They had calculated the run time of most light bulbs, and replaced them when their lifespan hit 80%. According to Disney folklore there used to be a crew that was out on Main Street every night, slowly working their way down and replacing ALL the bulbs, burned out or not. When they got to the end, they packed up and went back to the other end and started again. Same thing with painting of rails, lampposts, etc. Now it seems that they just wait until there are enough complaints to warrant paying for a crew to go fix the specific problem that's been in plain sight for months. Very very bad show.
