Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm straight, married 29 years, two kids. I totally support the right for gay people to marry. I also support the right of any religion to believe any danged thing it wants to believe and the right to use church funds in support of that belief. People supporting gay marriage need to organize and spend equal or more money supporting their point of view. Shouldn’t be too tough. According to statistics gay people are one of the most financially well off groups in the nation. There are also a helluva lot more gays than there are Mormons. Stop squawking about how you were screwed and try doing something productive. Bitching and marching? Little value Collecting and spending money? Much value
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct Thanks everyone for the kind and rational support. I am glad people like you (the straight but not narrow) exist in this world. It gives me hope. This morning I went to work late to rally on the New Haven CT green to witness the first official gay marriages. The crowd was cheering and the love was in the air indeed! Sadly, I learned tonight on the evening news that 30 states have now amended their respective state's constitution to ban gay marriage in their state. Prior to this election, there were only three states that banned gay marriage. Now I hear it's 30 states, I feel like looking for real estate outside the US. Connecticut and Massachusetts are now the only two states that offer marriage. In my case, I had a civil union in 2006 and the new "marriage law" does not give me any more civil liberties than my civil union did ..... in order to gain more rights, marriage has to be federally recognized. There are over 5000 rights, laws and privileges afforded to gays once marriage is federally recognized. We will win this in the courts and people (*cough*religious right*cough*) won't like it. Just because it's law doesn't mean people will except it. Thank you for all the enlighten views. It does give me hope. And as Madonna expressed during her past tour .... "there are many lamps, but the light is the same" .. I wish more people could feel that sentiment.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct some links to the news stories that covered the first offical gay marriages in Connecticut !!! *yeah* <a href="http://nhregister.com/articles/2008/11/12/news/doc491af26cd88a6072594373.txt" target="_blank">http://nhregister.com/articles...4373.txt</a> <a href="http://nhregister.com/articles/2008/11/12/news/doc491af26cd88a6072594373.txt" target="_blank">http://nhregister.com/articles...4373.txt</a> and by the way, in the AOL photo you will see two 48" high helium balloons of two brides with red balloons ... that we me - I am at the bottom of the stairs but I was psyched to see the balloons made it in the photo! lol
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct aol news link <a href="http://news.aol.com/article/gay-marriages-allowed-in-connecticut/241707" target="_blank">http://news.aol.com/article/ga...t/241707</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Sadly, I learned tonight on the evening news that 30 states have now amended their respective state's constitution to ban gay marriage in their state. Prior to this election, there were only three states that banned gay marriage. Now I hear it's 30 states, I feel like looking for real estate outside the US.>> That is what I've been afraid of. I know that I'm currently seen as being lower than a snake's belly around here. I don't think that is fair, but I accept it and will not change what I say because of it. I truly support gay marriage. I feel horrible that the day when it is possible throughout the U.S. apparently is being pushed further and further out. I would like to see that day come more quickly. But no one here but me seems to have any idea what backlash by the majority can mean. It is not pretty and is something you DO NOT WANT. Sure, you can roll your dice with the courts. If I were you, I wouldn’t gamble with something so important. But that is your choice.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But no one here but me seems to have any idea what backlash by the majority can mean. It is not pretty and is something you DO NOT WANT.<< But our nation already went through this in the south. And like I said before, it was the pressure of Dr. King and others that brought the issue to the forefront. David Garrow and Taylor Branch are very clear in their scholarship on the impact of Dr. King and the Civil Rights movement. It's a huge mistake to think that it was just Kennedy and Johnson that made it happen. The media covers marchers and protestors. They don't cover court briefings and filings. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I understand that you're arguing for what you see as a pragmatic approach. But I think it's a huge, huge mistake, and not pragmatic at all, for a group to politely ask for equal rights and let their oppressors (and that's what this is, make no mistake) determine the date and time when they'll be given those rights. The backlash will come, absolutely. Let it come. It guarantees that the issue will remain on the front burner. It will get more and more attention and those on the losing side will come to regret their actions. At a future day, those who were responsible for it will be even more ashamed, and their contemporaries will think twice about making the same mistake.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But our nation already went through this in the south. And like I said before, it was the pressure of Dr. King and others that brought the issue to the forefront. David Garrow and Taylor Branch are very clear in their scholarship on the impact of Dr. King and the Civil Rights movement. It's a huge mistake to think that it was just Kennedy and Johnson that made it happen. The media covers marchers and protestors. They don't cover court briefings and filings. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.>> 1) It took a LONG time for them to succeed. 2) They had far less popular support than gay marriage presently has. They HAD to rely on more confrontational tactics. They truly had nothing to lose. You do. I may be wrong (couldn't we all) but I truly believe that if the moderates who presently support gay marriage are not alienated, it would be a done deal within 5 years. Seven years at the outside. All you need to do is look at the demographics. Five years of old folks dieing and five years of young folks becoming old enough to vote and YOU HAVE IT MADE! Protest and legal action will also eventually win. But in my opinion it will take much longer. I think you are seeing that already with all the constitutional amendments at the state level. But thank you for at least recognizing that I am on your side.
Originally Posted By ecdc Fair points, RT. It is a different world - can you imagine an all-straight jury letting off someone who had lynched a gay person? No freakin' way.
Originally Posted By MissCandice I live in Washington but I am from California and everyone I know up here keeps asking me how this could happen in California, of all places. I guess because of San Fransisco and the entertainment field in LA, everyone thinks of CA being all for gay rights and/or liberal. I had to explain that CA is actually very conservative. I was horrified when this prop passed. I have no wish to be married but feel that anyone who wants to should have the right.
Originally Posted By avromark Arrgh and I was going to ask Miss Candice too! Hey there stranger, keep on Elantra'n!
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster MissCandice: "I live in Washington but I am from California and everyone I know up here keeps asking me how this could happen in California, of all places. I guess because of San Fransisco and the entertainment field in LA, everyone thinks of CA being all for gay rights and/or liberal. I had to explain that CA is actually very conservative. I was horrified when this prop passed. I have no wish to be married but feel that anyone who wants to should have the right." California is full of hicks and even the liberal urban areas are full of immigrants who are, by and large, conservative on social issues. That said, this most recent anti-gay measure had a loss less voter support than the previous one. Public opinion is moving in our direction.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct << Public opinion is moving in our direction.>> Do you mean to say you do not support gay marriage? If so, how can you deny civil liberties to a group of people based on who they are? For gay people to have their civil rights is a ridiculous as saying: - women can't vote simply because they are women (1920) - black people can't have rights because they are black (1965) Do you have these feeling because you have bigoted religious beliefs that tell you my being gay makes me less of a human than you? What other groups in history have been targeted by prejudice due to religion? let's see.... - WWII with Nazi Germany? It is amazing to me that this country is suppose to have a separation between church and state and the fascist radical religious right seem to think their belief system is the ONLY one that matters. What happened to: We live in a global community with multiple cultures and religious beliefs that need to be respected? Way to be a global citizen. Back to gay marriage.... there are many countries that recognize gay marriage. It seems the USA is once again proven to be a young immature county who needs to adopt best practices from neighboring countries that have proven to work. I will not be denied rights based on my attributes. What's next? let's not let those midgets marry because THEY make you uncomfortable too? Or all BLUE EYE people are an abomination because THEY make me uncomfortable ... it is the same arrogant, exclusive ridiculous thinking. I am proud to live in CT.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka <<<< Public opinion is moving in our direction.>> Do you mean to say you do not support gay marriage? If so, how can you deny civil liberties to a group of people based on who they are?>> No, Churro supports it and is saying that public opinion is moving towards accepting it, too.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct Thank you for the clarification. And I am happy to hear that. I was recently told that if gays get to marry than we have to let pediphiles marry ... I am still reeling from that comment. I got this e-mail from Human Rights Campaign today if anyone is interested: On November 4, voters in California, Arizona, and Florida declared that lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people are not equal under the law. Our rights were stripped. Our love was branded unworthy of the name marriage, though our commitments and responsibilities to each other are worthy of nothing less. We are angry – and that anger has moved to the streets. This Saturday, thousands of people across the country, spontaneously organizing themselves in a truly grassroots movement, will convene to raise the call for equality. To find an event near you click here. <a href="http://jointheimpact.wetpaint.com/?t=anon" target="_blank">http://jointheimpact.wetpaint..../?t=anon</a> But as the LGBT community and its allies exercise our uniquely American right to protest, I hope we will remember that our actions in the streets will set the tone for the ongoing debate about marriage equality. Will we reduce a human rights movement to tactics of recrimination? How we respond to these hateful amendments will say much about who we are. Let the joyful faces of the couples receiving Connecticut marriage licenses for the first time yesterday remind us: our cause is love; and only through love can we win the freedom to marry. Join with me and thousands of others – pledge to become an 'extremist for love' and fight to overturn these amendments. The Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches played a huge role in the travesty called Proposition 8, forcing me to question whether members of those communities have forgotten the lessons of their own struggles against persecution. It is chilling to realize that the Catholic and Mormon Churches knew they were telling lies – that marriage equality would require children to learn about homosexuality in school, that priests would be required to solemnize marriages of same-sex couples – and they lied anyway. In the wake of commanding support for Prop. 8 among African Americans, we are also asking ourselves why the community that has endured the most violent and persistent discrimination in our country’s history failed to understand our struggle for human rights. In this campaign we reached out to diverse communities, but we obviously failed to communicate to African Americans the interdependence of our struggles. Have we heard the concerns of the people we asked to listen to us? We assert that marriage rights are basic human rights; we must also show that our concern for human rights does not end with marriage. As we ask communities of color and religious communities to engage and partner with us, we must, in turn, demonstrate our commitment to the people and issues they care about. We must show that we will not turn away from the forty-seven million uninsured once we have domestic partner benefits, and that non-discrimination laws are not complete justice when legions of children are denied equal opportunity due to failing schools, violence, and racism. Today, I recommit myself to being an extremist for love. I will engage my friends, family, neighbors, and coworkers – no matter what their religious beliefs or cultural backgrounds – and will ask them to engage me in their lives. I am ready to listen and act on their behalf, even as I make my case for their support. At the same time, I will speed HRC's public efforts to overturn these laws: Our Religion and Faith program is organizing a wave of dialogues with churches; We support the lawsuit to overturn Proposition 8; We are working to pass hate crimes, workplace equality, and other laws that will help more LGBT people to come out, since openness is the key to changing hearts and minds; And HRC will support all future measures to overturn these hateful amendments. I ask you to join me today in promising to keep your anger and passion alive, and to turn them to the tasks that will broaden support for our cause. Take the pledge to work for justice – and understanding – until equality is the law of the land. November 4 was neither the beginning nor the end of our struggle. It showed us how much work is left to do, but it also brought out the passion we will need to do that work. That passion will win in the end. We must hold on to it, and use it wisely.
Originally Posted By quincytoo Happily, here in Canada, I know several couples that are in a same sex marriage. I truly don't understand why it is still illegal in many parts of the world to be married to someone of the same sex. hopefully this will change in our lifetime. Would have gladly have voted no if I could have.
Originally Posted By avromark And as I stated earlier, in Canada I find it highly unlikely they'll even table a bill anywhere near like Prop 8. It's pretty much 100% here to stay. Now on a lighter side, did you know that it's not actually girls that carry coodies but umm gay men who only like women who reside in basement apartments of California homes that don't have any basements?
Originally Posted By MissCandice There goes Mele, being elitist and only saying hi to one person. Typical.
Originally Posted By ADMIN <font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Don't go soon, Granny! In just a few short years, your grandson and I will be proudly announcing our legal marriage. And we're counting on you for a big fat wedding gift.
