Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>So while I get by, I do have it in the back of my mind will I be able to afford all my necessities each month. I wonder if there's a middle class tax cut can I and many others like me afford it. Can we afford to pay for healthcare? And yet because we worry about our lives. Because we want to make sure our families or ourselves are taken care of first, we're called selfish because we don't want to pay for other people's health care. I'm sorry but if you can't take care of yourself how can you take care of others.<<< And have you stopped to think the cost of living increases have been in part because of the hikes in insurance premiums companies are paying? When the pensions crisis started to hit, the PLC I worked for countered it by laying off 5% of their workforce (about 60,000 people). If you lost your income and needed health care, don't you want it covered? This is a massive conspiracy by the right wing, and it is poppy cock.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Fine let me worry about myself before I can be concerned with total strangers<<< Very christian of you (not). Very animalistic too. Proof of evolution perhaps? If we all took better care of each other, wouldn't it be a little easier to take care of ourselves too? Also the quip about immigrants, are you 100% American DAR? Which tribe are you from?
Originally Posted By Mr X (I actually PURPOSEFULLY left that one open for anyone who wanted it...leaving post 100 at the top of the page!) Oh well.
Originally Posted By Mr X Not that post 101 wasn't right on the money, mind you...definitely good stuff DavewasBaloo!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>It's okay if people die in the name of increased shareholder return. It isn't okay if they die and no one makes any money because of if. <<< I thought that was the American way? Or so the Republicans (backed by big business) would have you believe. Sickening huh?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Facts like other countries' socialized medicine is a failure.<<< I'd like to share a story of failure of socialised medicine (not). A couple of weeks ago, my 18 year old brother complained of pain when walking. My mom monitored the situation and then when it did not improved, she booked him an appointment with the Dr. This was just over a week ago. The Dr. looked at him and decided it would be good to get a specialist's opinion. The referral was made last week, and he had his appointment on Tuesday this week. The specialist thinkg my brother may have a nerve disease that emerges in late adolescence. HE wants to run some tests and surgery may be required. He was with the specialist, and the tests are being done next week (it is not life threatening thankfully). If he needs surgery, they will discuss and agree the timetable subject to the needs and how Dan wants to swing it with the college timetable. During the appointment on Tuesday, my mom mentioned how my baby brother (age 13) has even higher arches and is starting to have a worse gait when he walks. So the specialist agreed to see him and he is in this morning. Seems pretty efficient to me, and the only cost is our tax money. Money well spent. In the meantime we are all going in for our annual dental check ups at the end of the month - 4 of us will be $36. It is not perfect, but it works pretty well.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I hold our public school teachers, the one's that aren't slaves to the teacher's union, in very high regard<<< 150 years ago, there were no public schools in the WEstern world and the right were calling it a waste of tax payers money too.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ya, after a few days on the road and limited internet access, I am catching up!
Originally Posted By Mr X <---stands and applauds Dave and his comments in post 107! Excellent, excellent rebuttals right there; morons trying to attack other countries, take note! I hope that things don't end up being too serious Dave! (even if surgery is necessary, it seems that your bros are in good hands in any case!)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***In the meantime we are all going in for our annual dental check ups at the end of the month - 4 of us will be $36.*** Wow. That's a pretty decent trade-off considering you guys kill off your elderly (or so I've heard). Elderly gone = cheap dental? I can dig it!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo WEll at least we don't have Carousel yet (Logan's Run) ;-) Seriously, it is crazy. My mom has multiple ailments (3 holes in her heart, Emphazema, Lupus) and she gets excellent care here. In the US, her insurance company wrote her off in 1985 and I was told my mom would die before adulthood. My aunt had Cardio Myopathy which was diagnosed when she was a Senior Manager in the IRS. The insurance paid for a few months and then stopped paying. She died aged 36 after trying to keep up her treatment by selling all her assets except the house which she remortgaged. ANd the Catholic Church and Masonic lodge helped out too. When she died, she left my uncle and the kids in huge debt and they both joined the military because they could not afford to go to college due to the debts. My cousin was diagnosed the same and disappeared years ago "to die" because she did not want to leave her husband and kids in the same state. And when I was a kid, I was a wheelchair user for 18 months, my mom remortgaged to pay for my care when the insurance stopped paying. As well as to pay for the surgery I needed at Children's Hospital LA. This should not be happening. And this is why I feel very qualified to be able to speak knowledgably about the difference between the US and UK systems (my professional experience aside).
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo FWIW - both my grand parents (well my step dad's parents) were given excellent care in the their late 70's when they were diagnosed with cancer. And when people go on about cancer rates in the UK compared to the US, well remember there was chemical warfare and the blitz in London (both of them lived in the city while the Germans were bombing the place left, right and centre. US senior citizens do not have a clue what war time suffering was like on the domestic front.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***FWIW - both my grand parents (well my step dad's parents) were given excellent care in the their late 70's when they were diagnosed with cancer.*** Wait, are you trying to imply that nationalized health care does NOT require killing grandma and grandpa? I've heard otherwise! (glad your folks were spared though, at least) sarcasm...off. (for now)
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol - tell that to some friends in their 80's that just had their hip replaced on the NHS. It is not all moonlight and smiles though, and we need reform in the UK too. There are now more over 65's than under 18's and that is a really challenge to the economy. But getting rid of the NHS is out of the question. Instead we are working on some whole system reforms to quote including encouraging immigration (I know, how unamerican - the Statue of Liberty got it so wrong ;-)
Originally Posted By u k fan My Great Aunt who is well into her 80's and can't be far off her 90's was treated for breast cancer last year. In my experience here in the UK care of the elderly is handled better out of the private sector. My sister has epilepsy and while she sometimes waits to see a consultant longer than I would like I can't imagine how we'd fare without the NHS. There is no way we would have afforded her treatment without it. As Dave said there are certainly some improvements that could be made, but I have no doubt that it's improved even my quality of life and I haven't seen a Dr in years!!!
Originally Posted By DAR <<The government isn't going to run these programs. They are going to outsource it, just like they do Medicare. They are going to outsource it to Premera, and Regence, and Blue Cross, and United Healthcare, and Aetna... the infrastructure is already there. If you like your current insurance plan, you'll keep it. No one is going to get in your way>> How do we know this? We have absolutely no proof.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Very christian of you (not). Very animalistic too. Proof of evolution perhaps? If we all took better care of each other, wouldn't it be a little easier to take care of ourselves too? Also the quip about immigrants, are you 100% American DAR? Which tribe are you from?>> If you can't take care of yourself how are you expected to take care of others. And my immigrants comment was about illegal immigrants not the one's that follow the rules when coming to this country.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << How do we know this? We have absolutely no proof. >> But we have plenty of proof showing how insurance companies siphon off your premiums to boost profit margins, pay ridiculous executive salaries, and cater to the Wall Street fat cats.
Originally Posted By queenbee DAR, you, being an employee of an insurance company, may have more choices than your average American. Most people take whatever plan their employer provides. They have no choice right now.
