Originally Posted By SuperDry At least they have jobs - writing posters for tea party rallies. Seriously, post #38 shows exactly what the problem is with the Border Patrol T-shirt on CDM stunt is - any mention of Mexico or people of Hispanic ancestry immediately casts a shadow of illegal immigration upon a whole segment of society, even if most of the people involved are US citizens.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 "Seriously Hans? Would you say the same if kids were wearing "re-segregation now!" t-shirts?" They absolutely have the right to wear the shirts...the first amendment says so. Yes wearing them on CDM (and most of the Hispanics there were probably not illegal immigrants so I doubt that is what the students issue was) is bigoted and disgusting. And we should all call out anyone who is being racist. They do have that right though.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***They absolutely have the right to wear the shirts...the first amendment says so*** Again, I'm not entirely sure that applies to behavior (or clothing) in a public school situation.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Apparently it does since the authorities at the school backtracked on the criticisms of the students after parents protested. In a nutshell I would say that what those kids did was not a crime, and therefore the school probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on if the parents were to sue the district. There have been Federal rulings in favor of those who have worn distasteful messages on their clothing. Here's recent and notable example: <a href="http://www.firstamendmentcoalition.org/2010/05/federal-judge-upholds-free-speech-right-to-print-dead-soldiers-name-on-anti-war-t-shirt/" target="_blank">http://www.firstamendmentcoali...t-shirt/</a>
Originally Posted By Labuda Good point in #43, X. Just look at LP - Doobie owns it, so his rules are the rules in play here. Who are we to say that a school district can't tell students what they can or can't wear? Remember how worked up we all (well, most of us here) got about the girl in Mississippi who wanted to wear a tux to her prom and THEN got sent to a fake prom instead? Anyone who sided with the girl on that (sexuality aside) should feel it's within the rights of the kids to wear these shirts, no matter how despicable we think it to be. Then again, the girl wasn't wanting to wear a tux to be racist. Anyhow, the flaming liberal in me says these boys should be allowed to wear the shirts, but not on school property or at a school function. Hypocritical of me? Kind of, but as I said, the girl in Mississippi wasn't making a racist point with her clothing that she wanted to wear to a school function.
Originally Posted By Labuda Oh, and one more thing that just popped into my mind.... good luck getting into Disneyland wearing a shirt that say "Puck off" but has an F substituted for the P.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan In our local high schools, wearing plain red or blue t-shirts and clothing is prohibited as they are associated with gang colors. At some schools, the only image or logo that can be on a t-shirt is the school name and mascot. There are rules about wearing sports teams hats and clothing, how revealing clothing can be (or rather not be) and so forth. I have little doubt that the intention of these "young patriots" was to provoke a reaction, and they got it. But the school did over-react. In fact, over-reaction happened on all sides in this thing -- from those "offended" by their clothing, to local citizens getting all worked up about it and so forth. A little calm, rational maturity from any corner would have been nice, but in 2010 America, that seems in short supply. We go from zero to hysterical in 0.9 seconds. Personally, this incident is why I am very much in favor of public schools having uniforms. It levels the playing field a bit between the have's and have-not's, and makes it very clear what is and is not acceptable to wear to school on any given day.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I have little doubt that the intention of these "young patriots" was to provoke a reaction, and they got it. But the school did over-react. In fact, over-reaction happened on all sides in this thing -- from those "offended" by their clothing, to local citizens getting all worked up about it and so forth. A little calm, rational maturity from any corner would have been nice, but in 2010 America, that seems in short supply. We go from zero to hysterical in 0.9 seconds.> Good points. Boy howdy. What he said.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Oh, and one more thing that just popped into my mind.... good luck getting into Disneyland wearing a shirt that say "Puck off" but has an F substituted for the P." But the question is what if the customer wearing such an item sued Disney for free speech rights? How would that argument and Disney's rules stand up in court? Who would likely prevail?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Many people misunderstand this, but "free speech" (aka the first amendment) means freedom of speech vis a vis the government. Not anything private. It means you can say "Obama is a Nazi!" and the government can't arrest you. (Obviously, or we'd have an awful lot of arrests lately.) If you go into your boss's office and call HIM a Nazi and a so-and-so and offer a few choice words about his mother besides, and he fires you, you can't go crying "what about free speech!?" It doesn't work that way. Disney as a private entity has the right to ban apparel it views as offensive. "Free speech rights" don't apply here. This is well established. Schools are a more gray area, since public schools are state-supported. But many cases have upheld the right of schools to set their own dress policies. As 2oony pointed out, it can even extend to something seemingly benign like plain red and blue t-shirts (!) if the school determines that allowing them will be disruptive.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But the question is what if the customer wearing such an item sued Disney for free speech rights? How would that argument and Disney's rules stand up in court? Who would likely prevail?*** Disney would. Just like Freedom of Religion doesn't mean I can hold an impromptu church service in Fantasyland. If Disney didn't like it, they could ask me to desist. If I refused, they could escort me out if they wanted to or summon the police to arrest me for trespassing. (on a more sarcastic kinda day, I'd make some pithy comment about religious services and Fantasyland, but today I won't )
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight What do you think about the kids that wore American Flag shirts to school on CDM and got sent home? American flag shirts people!! WTH?!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>What do you think about the kids that wore American Flag shirts to school on CDM and got sent home?<< I think it's one of those tempest-in-a-teapot issues that lets everyone get all in a lather and feel like they are speaking out on a matter of great importance. But what it really is is an illustration of dumbed-down bumper sticker politics in action. Confrontational act meets overreaction meets hysterical outcry. Insert one rational, level-headed player into the mix at any point on the timeline and the whole thing never amounts to anything.
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight <<I think it's one of those tempest-in-a-teapot issues that lets everyone get all in a lather and feel like they are speaking out on a matter of great importance>> Ya know K2M, I think the same thing pretty much. Let them wear thier CDM shirt, thier Meico flag shirt or California flag shirts.. as long as they do its peacfully and qietly,who cares. They are each saying/believeing in somehting they feel is important and appreciating thier own country/state.
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight Now someone wearing a Knotts Bery Farm t-shirt to Disneyland! That's a whole other story..don't get me started. ;-)
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Let them wear thier CDM shirt, thier Meico flag shirt or California flag shirts.. as long as they do its peacfully and qietly,who cares.<< I agree. I'd prefer to let the kids wear whatever and perhaps have a forum to discuss the issues, if any arise. (I have no doubt whatsoever the wearing of the shirts was an in-your-face move designed to provoke -- I very much doubt they wore these shirts on a regular basis, especially not as a group.) Instead, the school overreacted, and then every talk radio program in the land appreciated the gift of such a black & white topic and away we went. Letting people have their say is a good thing -- either great ideas emerge or idiocy eventually reveals itself.
Originally Posted By Lady Starlight ^^Well said and I very much agree with that whole post. It's all this in-your-face stuff that prevokes people and ruins it.
