Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance It's time this country grew the hell up and started treating everyone equally. Politicians are trying to create laws that legalize their discrimination, and hatred, and bigotry. It's disgusting and I couldn't be more ashamed of this country when I see are supposed leaders acting as the ring leaders in these despicable actions.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Why is being bullied for being gay any worse?*** Would you say the same about a Jewish child in Germany in the late 1930's who got beat up? It's a fine line between teasing, bullying, and outright persecution, but there are lines there nonetheless. In the past such actions were largely racial though it's not as acceptable these days to be open about it (although that, too, seems to be making quite a comeback lately). Now it's Muslims, gays, atheists among others who are the targets. Though the targets change over time, the vitriol is exactly the same.
Originally Posted By Mr X And now, naturally, there are some GOP scumbags out there looking to REMOVE gay kids from the list of protected folks in anti-bullying legislation. Is it any wonder I've gone from disliking Republicans to outright loathing them!? <a href="http://iowaindependent.com/27342/gop-lawmakers-want-to-exclude-gay-students-from-anti-bullying-bill" target="_blank">http://iowaindependent.com/273...ing-bill</a> ***A pair of Republican state legislators has introduced a bill that would remove protections for gay, lesbian and transgender students from an anti-bullying law passed in 2007. State Reps. Jason Schultz, R-Schleswig, and Matt Windschitl, R-Missouri Valley, sponsored the legislation to remove sexual orientation and gender identity as definitions used for purposes of protecting students in public and nonpublic schools from harassment and bullying.*** How depressingly unsurprising. *sigh*
Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://www.whotv.com/news/who-tv-safe-schools-020710,0,164239.story" target="_blank">http://www.whotv.com/news/who-...39.story</a> ***Rep. Jason Schultz says he's not doing this to hurt gay, lesbian and transgender students, he's just trying to forward his agenda to make same sex marriage illegal here in Iowa*** I'm not quite sure if this makes it simply the same, or even worse. Iit's so *nice* to know that this politician doesn't REALLY want to hurt those gay and lesbian kids (yes, VERY heavy sarcasm right there). He's just okay with doing so, as long as it can further his hateful agenda. Got it.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "***Why is being bullied for being gay any worse?*** Would you say the same about a Jewish child in Germany in the late 1930's who got beat up?" Of course not and I wouldn't say the same about gay youth in Germany in the 1930's who were just as persecuted. This is the USA in 2010 and state-sanctioned violence is not what's happening here. And I don't believe that death camps are in the future for gay Americans.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Any kind of bullying is not acceptable. Far too many people still view it as just one of those things kids do, almost like a rite of passage. Well, it shouldn't be tolerated at all.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***This is the USA in 2010 and state-sanctioned violence is not what's happening here*** What do you call those Republicans trying to remove "gay and lesbian" off the list of people it's not okay to assault? ***And I don't believe that death camps are in the future for gay Americans*** Depends on who's in charge. No, I doubt it would ever get THAT extreme (although lynchings were common not so long ago in America, it's hardly unprecedented), but there are plenty of powerful folks out there who aim to criminalize homosexuality if they can.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Bullying sucks no matter the reason for it. I don't think gay students should receive special protection from bullying but neither should they be excluded from safe-school legislation. If one group is protected all should be protected.
Originally Posted By Mr X Except that's not the way it works in the real world. Removing them from the list is an open invitation for them to be targeted specifically, and for like-minded adults in authority positions to look the other way or even outright encourage it. I think you're a touch naive on this issue Churro. I'm GLAD to hear you've never encountered or witnessed vitriolic homophobia, but I've seen it and it can be very ugly.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "***This is the USA in 2010 and state-sanctioned violence is not what's happening here*** What do you call those Republicans trying to remove "gay and lesbian" off the list of people it's not okay to assault?" I would call that what it is: a few misguided politically minded bigots trying to push their agenda on a state that already chose to go the opposite direction. I wouldn't call it state-sanctioned. "***And I don't believe that death camps are in the future for gay Americans*** Depends on who's in charge. No, I doubt it would ever get THAT extreme (although lynchings were common not so long ago in America, it's hardly unprecedented), but there are plenty of powerful folks out there who aim to criminalize homosexuality if they can." They are a dying breed. I am a gay American who feels very safe here. There are wackos but they are on the fringes of society. Every day this country becomes less homophobic. I guess I choose hope over stirring up needless fear.
Originally Posted By Mr X I guess I don't see that as stirring up fear, I see it as calling those people out wherever and whenever possible and making it clear that their attitudes are unacceptable. Yes, I think things are better than before (although this 2 steps forward 1 step back is getting on my nerves), but no I don't think it's cool enough that we should stop fighting. When we have GENUINE equal rights for all, I'll chill.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Mr X: "I think you're a touch naive on this issue Churro. I'm GLAD to hear you've never encountered or witnessed vitriolic homophobia, but I've seen it and it can be very ugly." Yes, X, I'm naive on this because I don't agree with you. Are you gay? Do you live in this country? I have, in fact, encountered "vitriolic homophobia". I came home from school one day to find all my possessions sitting on the front porch with a note informing me I was kicked out of my apartment. I later found out a girl from my (Mormon) church whom I had confided in informed our bishop I was gay. He told my roommate who kicked me out. For being gay. As crappy as that experience was I was able to differentiate between the whole world being against me and a few narrow-minded individuals being against me. Why is it that progressive individuals want us to act like victims all the time? We're not as weak as you think we are. Oh well, I guess I'm just too naive to know what's good for me.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But I've been all over this country and I was never treated as an "abomination" because of my sexuality*** And yet you WERE treated like that by your own friends and family. ***I came home from school one day to find all my possessions sitting on the front porch with a note informing me I was kicked out of my apartment*** Sounds like they hated you something awful. I hate people like that. Anyway, I can only base my replies to you on what you write. You do seem to have a tendency to downplay matters to suit your opinion, but then come roaring back with a big "how dare you!?" when called on it. I've noticed this before. And no, I'm not going to answer your personal questions directed at me, it's none of anyone's business. Everyone here knows I currently live outside the country but I don't see the relevance of that at all. If anything, I'm far more informed about what's going on in America than your average Joe-on-the-Street, and I still spend lots of time there (more than 1/3 of my time since I first moved abroad, in fact).
Originally Posted By Mr X Sorry, that first retort came out more harshly than I intended. I just meant to point out that it seems like on the one hand you dismiss matters as "not a big deal" but then on the other hand you point out horrific things that have happened to you.
Originally Posted By Mr X And no, I'm not saying that getting kicked out of your pad is all that horrible in and of itself. But to come home and find your possessions sitting outside along with a note? Come on! That's how you treat someone who has committed a crime against you or has a communicable disease for gods sake! How spiteful.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "***But I've been all over this country and I was never treated as an "abomination" because of my sexuality*** And yet you WERE treated like that by your own friends and family." Actually, they were neither friends nor family. Just roommates. My friends and family have been mostly great. "Anyway, I can only base my replies to you on what you write. You do seem to have a tendency to downplay matters to suit your opinion, but then come roaring back with a big "how dare you!?" when called on it. I've noticed this before." I don't believe I've ever written "How dare you!" in my life. And I honestly don't know what you're referring to since we mostly agree on stuff. "I just meant to point out that it seems like on the one hand you dismiss matters as "not a big deal" but then on the other hand you point out horrific things that have happened to you." I included my personal experience for two reasons. One was in response to you saying I was naive on the topic gay bullying. The second reason was to point out that bad things happen but we shouldn't make them out to be more than what they are. Isolated incidents do not represent the country as a whole. "And no, I'm not saying that getting kicked out of your pad is all that horrible in and of itself. But to come home and find your possessions sitting outside along with a note? Come on! That's how you treat someone who has committed a crime against you or has a communicable disease for gods sake! How spiteful." It was awful, especially considering I was just returning from spending Christmas with my family. "Sorry, that first retort came out more harshly than I intended." Don't worry. No love lost>
Originally Posted By u k fan ChurroMonster, in some ways your experience may have been easier to handle as you could blame the reactions of your friend/roommate and Bishop on the church. You could look around to those friends who weren't members and see that they probably wouldn't treat you as harshly. I haven't been able to get the first link to work, but have seen what I assume is the same story elsewhere, but I imagine that this guy was unable to see that there were other places he could turn as there was no one "group" to blame for his bullying.
Originally Posted By dshyates And then you have ASSets to society such as $.50 <a href="http://scoop.todayshow.com/_news/2010/09/30/5209734-is-50-cent-taking-anti-gay-stance-on-twitter" target="_blank">http://scoop.todayshow.com/_ne...-twitter</a>
Originally Posted By DAR Churro thank you for your calmed and reasonable responses to this situation.
