Originally Posted By dshyates Actually, Cleveland is a pretty conservative and blue collar kinda place. But like most major metro areas there is an overall mix of demographics that leads to a somewhat more tolerant atmosphere than in a lot of rural areas. But to just talk about the increased level of bulling in our country, I am not surprised. Just look at who we, as a society, raise to the level of celebrity. Gordon Ramsey, who has had 2 chefs that appeared on his show commit suicide. Nancy Grace, who bullied one guest that ended in suicide. And the ever lovely Simon Cowell. With role models like these guys, I am not surprised that we as a society have coarsened
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I found a link to the story that works, thanks for the joke about my double post, but a reply with a workable link would've been more appreciated." Geez, lighten up.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "I'm unfamiliar with that part of the country. It sounds like a very tolerant place." I've only lived here for a year. I've been to most decent-sized cities in most states and they're all generally pretty open-minded. Even Salt Lake City has a sizable gay community. It's small-town America where things can be dicey for gay Americans and even that is slowly fading away.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The presence of a gay community in a given place doesn't mean that bigotry doesn't exist there. Even here in liberal Bay Area there are occasional gay bashings.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "But to just talk about the increased level of bulling in our country, I am not surprised. Just look at who we, as a society, raise to the level of celebrity. Gordon Ramsey, who has had 2 chefs that appeared on his show commit suicide. Nancy Grace, who bullied one guest that ended in suicide. And the ever lovely Simon Cowell. With role models like these guys, I am not surprised that we as a society have coarsened" And let's not forget Anne Robinson of The Weakest Link who really started the mean streak in competition reality TV. The news media with hosts shouting down their guests aren't really helping either.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "The presence of a gay community in a given place doesn't mean that bigotry doesn't exist there. Even here in liberal Bay Area there are occasional gay bashings." I agree. I, for one, would never live in Utah even though a lot of gay people choose to. There will always be haters anywhere you go. But the fact that acts of intolerance or violence towards gays are roundly condemned by scads of straight people tells me we've got a bright future.
Originally Posted By -em >>But to just talk about the increased level of bulling in our country, I am not surprised. Just look at who we, as a society, raise to the level of celebrity. << I agree with that and I also would wager that as a whole bullying has been around "forever" but it's gotten worse and worse with the increased access to technology,and less public "responsibility" where quite frankly we as a society are loosing backbones when standing up for injustice of others. The maliciousness of the attacks has also IMO worsened both with aggressiveness of the attackers and often lack of resources for the victims if and when they do speak out. >>"The presence of a gay community in a given place doesn't mean that bigotry doesn't exist there. Even here in liberal Bay Area there are occasional gay bashings."<< Agreed. >>I agree. I, for one, would never live in Utah even though a lot of gay people choose to. << I sadly agree and I wish it was otherwise.. But the quote of "People are always afraid of what's different" comes to mind.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "There will always be haters anywhere you go. But the fact that acts of intolerance or violence towards gays are roundly condemned by scads of straight people tells me we've got a bright future." Agreed.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <That all depends on where you live. Even in NYC there are places you'd want to avoid being outwardly gay.> Boy howdy. My current neighborhood is great, but in the 80's I lived in a very insular, "wise guy" (as in Mafia) sort of nabe in Brooklyn with all the attendant attitudes, and I made sure my landlord and other people I came into contact with thought I was straight. I just wouldn't have felt safe being known as "the fag who lives in 115," which is definitely what I would have been known as in that very tight-knit nabe. I've been back to the old nabe more recently, and I'm STILL not sure I'd feel safe there being known as gay. What's weird (and very New York) is that this nabe and my current one are adjacent. As for this kid, let's remember that he was - a kid. Literally, a teenager. Suicide is always an overreaction (as someone once put it, "a permanent solution to a temporary problem"), but it happens all the time, especially with teenagers. Things can just seem overwhelming and "all is lost" to a teen, in ways they don't to an adult. I had a good friend from grade school who was slightly older (early 20's) when he killed himself because his girlfriend broke up with him. He was just devastated, thought his world was over and things would never get better. Of course, they would have, but he couldn't be told that. He just KNEW they wouldn't, and he ended it. Churro, there's no question that things here are a lot better than they once were, but when you say it's not a big deal to be gay any more, I think you're looking at how things ought to be, and where they will be eventually, but not how they actually are just yet. At least not everywhere in the country (or even different sections of the same city!) and then you have to figure in individual factors like this kid's age and his individual story (I haven't heard this, but perhaps his parents didn't know and he was afraid they'd turn against him - a common fear, sometimes justified). And while we're definitely moving in the right direction, there's also been an ugly and very visible right-wing reaction to our very progress. Those people will lose in the end, but in the meantime they can and do make life hard for people who perhaps don't yet have the confidence to take them on. It's up to those of us who do (straight and gay) to do so.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "Churro, there's no question that things here are a lot better than they once were, but when you say it's not a big deal to be gay any more, I think you're looking at how things ought to be, and where they will be eventually, but not how they actually are just yet. At least not everywhere in the country (or even different sections of the same city!) You're right. However, there are many neighborhoods in this country that may not be safe for black people or white people or Muslims or Mexicans to go into. It's not just gays that face potential risk when entering certain areas. As a whole, this country has a long way to go for everyone to be accepting of everyone else.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Sorry, but you can't equate being gay with being black or Mexican. Sorry, but the issues each group are faces are completely different. Moreover you don't have large religious bodies telling Mexican immigrants that they are going to hell for being, well, Mexican immigrants.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Of course there are differences. Big ones. I was only referencing Dabob's comment about not feeling safe in certain neighborhoods. And I am sure it wasn't religious zealots in his "nabe" he was afraid of. Just narrow-minded thugs who probably would be hostile to more than just gay people.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 As a matter of fact it was this very same nabe where I got my tires slashed for daring to let a black friend stay with me (about 10 days, waiting for the first of the month for a new apartment to become available.)
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster It's not hard when you compare how things were just ten years ago. Right now our major opposition comes from fringe elements such as the Mormon church, Fred Phelps, and a few politicians pandering to the Teabaggers. Most major religions in the US have softened their anti-gay positions and are on the road to full acceptance. It used to be everyone was against us.
Originally Posted By disneydad109 Don't kid yourself that the L.D.S. is fringe they are one of the fasting growing church groups. A word to the wise.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster I do know a fair amount having grown up in the church and having served a two-year mission as well as having other leadership positions. That said, ecdc is the resident expert on the religion round these parts. Actually, the Mormon church is currently shrinking in size. They are very slow to report the numbers of people who leave the church and make it very difficult for a departing member to have their membership withdrawn from the church. I've been trying for a decade and they still have me listed as a member. Check this out: <a href="http://www.suite101.com/content/mormons-fastest-growing-church-a52196" target="_blank">http://www.suite101.com/conten...h-a52196</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I've been trying for a decade and they still have me listed as a member.<< You think that's bad, just try getting unsubscribed to classmates.com emails!
