Originally Posted By u k fan Good review, but I have to say as someone who hasn't ridden yet I agree with a lot of leemac's criticisms. I never got the idea of building Paris so close to the real thing and got even less the idea of riding on a rat. I'd also like to have seen some AAs in the attraction. It's interesting that Marvel won't be coming to Backlot. I wasn't keen on retrofitting Marvel characters in to a whole land, but did think they might add them into Armageddon or use them for a new attraction. I can't say I'm too disappointed though!!!
Originally Posted By TDLFAN While the idea of a Parisian street seems odd so close to the real thing, I do think it's the perfect setting for a ride that takes place in a Parisian restaurant. So I cut it some slack. Same for the ride vehicle being a rat. After all we are supposed to be "rat size" so seemed appropriate to be a rat. Maybe the idea of a rat mobile is a bit much but since we are aupposed to be like a rat running around, what other type of vehicle would have been appropriate? As for other concerns, I'm surprised Leemac agrees with some of my assessment. Now in regards to the wastelands, Armageddon and LMA need to close and replaced with something more Disney like and thematically more appealing to the eye.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN And one more thing … I hope the marvel characters get their own park. I dislike that franchise in a Disney park and it's bad enough Spider-Man is doing meet and greet at WDSP and looking horribly forced and out of place in that setting. Same for them all at Disneyland innoventions.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I'm okay with the rat vehicles in theory, but the execution of them is just so terrible. They look really cheesy and cartoony, and don't reflect the visual style of the movie in any way. I think that a plain vehicle (like the old Sea Cabs or a Doombuggy) would have been a better choice than what they ended up with >>However it couldn't be any worse so any improvement will be a welcome respite.<< So true! It's an awkward area with how they positioned everything, but I honestly can't think of that anything they could do to make it worse. Anything would be an improvement, even if it just some planters or a different paint scheme >>LMA should have always been buried outside the "berm" - it is a huge headache for planning expansion at the park without pulling it out.<< Is the show still popular in Paris? I know that the crowds have been dwindling at the WDW version, and I'd imagine it's quite expensive to run. If they wanted to make dramatic changes in the park, it seems like that space would be prime for redevelopment
Originally Posted By leemac <<Maybe the idea of a rat mobile is a bit much but since we are aupposed to be like a rat running around, what other type of vehicle would have been appropriate?>> I've always been in the belief that ride vehicles should be inanimate - choosing something organic just doesn't work for me. I'd have plumped for some kitchen utensils - maybe a mug or cocktail stick holder etc. There was a design for a champagne cork at one point.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I never got the idea of building Paris so close to the real thing>> The bigger problem for me is that the entire park's identity is being ignored. The cardinal rule for any Disney theme park is to stick to the mission statement that underpins the theme. It just feels strange to have such a hodge podge of themes all crunched together in that part of the park. I'm all for jettisoning the studios theme but at least try and link them together with open narratives. I'm just glad I'm not the one making decisions over that park.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Is the show still popular in Paris? I know that the crowds have been dwindling at the WDW version, and I'd imagine it's quite expensive to run. If they wanted to make dramatic changes in the park, it seems like that space would be prime for redevelopment>> It is still popular but then it is the only large scale show at the park. It still rates highly which is why they have kept it going despite the crazy operating costs. I don't think it will be removed any time soon - at the minimum it is an incredible people eater for several shows per day.
Originally Posted By leemac <<A third park? So we have to wait another 15 years to see Marvel at DLP. That's bad.>> At the moment it is an easier sell to the government that the third park will have exclusivity over MARVEL. That can always change. There will be a lot of focus on HKDL when Iron Man Experience opens to see how it gels into a Disneyland park. I think it will be a big success there and it will help redress some of the guestflows that have been heavily weighted to the south of the park with the three expansion mini-lands.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "The bigger problem for me is that the entire park's identity is being ignored. The cardinal rule for any Disney theme park is to stick to the mission statement that underpins the theme." So good to hear someone say this, especially a person who is directly tied to the organization. I'm also glad to know that there is at least a basic roadmap of how Disney's parks are supposed to develop and progress.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I've always been in the belief that ride vehicles should be inanimate - choosing something organic just doesn't work for me. I'd have plumped for some kitchen utensils - maybe a mug or cocktail stick holder etc. There was a design for a champagne cork at one point.<< Those other designs would have been nice as well but a bit too much generic theming would be counter productive don't you think? Personally making the vehicles look like hunny pots in tdl and the mk work with the content on the ride. Same for the shells in the mermaid ride. The ratatouille vehicles may be ratty and may not be quite in sync with the theme or the movie itself but I appreciate the effort to make the ride whimsical. >>The bigger problem for me is that the entire park's identity is being ignored. The cardinal rule for any Disney theme park is to stick to the mission statement that underpins the theme. It just feels strange to have such a hodge podge of themes all crunched together in that part of the park<<< I get where you're coming from Leemac but really, as of late most of the parks suffer from this issue. Don't you think the same is happening with the pixarization of Epcot? Or plopping an Aladdin spinner in a predominantly African themed adventureland as the case with the MK? Or even DCA… what does monsters inc, Aladdin show and bugs land have to do with California? In regards to WDSP, yes you're correct. It's a mismatch of themes but this park desperately needs more quality theming and rides. The entire ratatouille area is a major step forward after that god awful toy story land. So as much as I agree with you on this issue, I also can cut some slack because the end product is quality. Similarly to the new fantasyland at the MK. Mediocre additions to it but at least it's a huge upgrade on the magic kingdoms lack luster themes.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>>So good to hear someone say this, especially a person who is directly tied to the organization. I'm also glad to know that there is at least a basic roadmap of how Disney's parks are supposed to develop and progress.<<< Well forgive me but I have been saying the same thing about the parks and criticizing some of the decisions Disney has made for like almost decades I've been a part of these forums an getting quite a lot of negative reception for doing so. So maybe I missed something but, when did it become cool to rant on Disney's missteps? I though I was the originator on such frank opinions. And keep in mind I did work for the mouse as well back in the glory says. So sorry Leemac but you have to share some of that glory with me ;-) I guess Most people here forgot you loved dca more than Tokyo DisneySea, considered by many to be the highest of highs for Disney in theme and show.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I though I was the originator on such frank opinions." God, you really are completely delusional.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "when did it become cool to rant on Disney's missteps?" Never. This might even be the complete opposite of cool.
Originally Posted By u k fan I think a lot of the problems with the disparate themes in Toon Studios could be solved by going back to the idea that this is where the toons are actually working. Add some studio paraphernalia, a few lights and clapper boards etc. to each area to give them some sort of link. I said elsewhere, a little easter egg of a rat-sized trailer hidden in the Rat... area with Remy's voice coming out of it would be really cool. He could be rehearsing his lines or on the phone to his agent. Set up some tiny cameras like they are getting ready to shoot some footage, little director's chairs etc. etc. Do something similar for TSPL and they at least then have a link. The Magic Carpets and other older additions already have those elements so this just builds on that. You can see the progression of what is now Toon Studios as you look round. The Magic Carpets has very minimal theming and a few painted backdrops (but this does at least work in a studio setting), then we get Crush and Cars, which are a step up and have a small amount of landscaping and geographical features and then TSPL which has off the shelf rides still, but is a step up in that the area is fully-immersive and now to Rat... which has a one of a kind ride and a fully-realised themed area. With all that said the Carpets fit the studio theme better than Rat... (IMHO) so something is going right and wrong all at the same time!!!
Originally Posted By leemac <<I think a lot of the problems with the disparate themes in Toon Studios could be solved by going back to the idea that this is where the toons are actually working. >> It was always disappointed that Cory's idea was never pushed further. It came about due to the Genie's presence at the Magic Carpets but I always thought it would work better than just plonking down a series of Pixar attractions. That whole area is now such a mismatch of concepts. The park was always poor masterplanned but the expansions haven't helped in the slightest.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<My boss quit SDL this week so I've finally had a little respite! >> WHOA! Please explain precisely what you mean by "quit"! Is his work now finished on the project? Is he off to another project elsewhere in the Imagineering galaxy? Good heavens, Lee... just don't drop a little bombshell like that on us without some kind of context! <<--- glad she wasn't drinking a hot beverage while reading the thread!
Originally Posted By Malin On the subject of the Studios being a complete mess. Who's bright idea was it to build the Tower of Terror in the middle of the Park. Giving visitors an ugly view when walking from the backlot over to Toy Story Playland behind this structure. DHS, DCA and TDS all have this attraction facing the farthest sides of the park. So none of the back can be seen unless you are actually outside the park. It's poor placement and a lazy idea.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>Who's bright idea was it to build the Tower of Terror in the middle of the Park. Giving visitors an ugly view when walking from the backlot over to Toy Story Playland behind this structure. DHS, DCA and TDS all have this attraction facing the farthest sides of the park. So none of the back can be seen unless you are actually outside the park. It's poor placement and a lazy idea. <<< It was a terrible idea, but I guess WDI wanted to give WDSP a landmark. ToT is the castle of that park. WDSP is such a mess and the best way would be to tear it down and rebuild it. Leemac mentioned a third park about Marvel and honestly I'm fearing that it will be another mess. ED SCA ist still repaying the debt and they will continue that way over the next years. So there will not be a big amount for a third park. History repeats itself. I'm still hoping that Marvel comes to WDSP. The movies are popular in Europe, but not the comics. Everyone associates Marvel with movies and that's why I think that it would work fine in the Studios Park. A third park shouldn't be based on a single brand. I would prefer a park that can accomodate many different things, like TDS. I know that park will not come to Europe.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Is he off to another project elsewhere in the Imagineering galaxy?>> Sadly it isn't who you think! He is still firmly ensconced in SDL and protected by folks who seem to think he is doing a good job. Misguided IMHO but he is going to end up retiring on that project. I've complicated reporting lines for my side of the project but ultimately it was up through the GM who is leaving this week for the new Prez role at Four Season APAC.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It was a terrible idea, but I guess WDI wanted to give WDSP a landmark. ToT is the castle of that park.>> That was the sole driving factor for the location. Personally I thought it could have been set further SW (behind where the current tram load/unload is and on a large backstage parking lot). However I've never paid much attention to the rear of the structure but it would have made more sense for it to follow the design guidelines that are in place for WDW's version where it is themed on both sides (as much as guests can see).
