Originally Posted By Mr X ***I call it "baby steps" - the TDR mindset is entirely character-driven and so it is the task of both WDI and WDI-Creative Entertainment to demonstrate to them it is possible to have a great show without massive character displays.*** Is this really in-line with what the local audience wants or expects, though? I would think the OLC might know better in this case. Also, if the "baby steps" results in a less than impressive result, might that not just cause more digging in by OLC the next time around? (personally one of my favorite shows ever is Illuminations, and to me it is VERY "Disney", so I certainly have no personal problem with no characters...but I wonder if the local TDR patron would feel the same?)
Originally Posted By irishfan Just watched the parade in full on jtcent, those floats are incredible! The music falls a little flat with me though.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Is this really in-line with what the local audience wants or expects, though?>> Bingo - that is the delicate balancing act. The problem is that the audience needs to change in order for OLC to grow their business. You can't ignore the core base but they need to find a way to attract a new audience - attendance just can't keep growing amongst the core audience. It is a real dilemma and I'm not sure what they can realistically do. Regular guests expect to see characters everywhere - the squeals of delight when the hordes of characters came flooding out of the castle for the anniversary greeting shows how important they are. The problem is that Disney isn't just about the characters - back to the iasw argument again! That said - IllumiNations is very un-Disney to me. It is an incredible show (still my personal favorite nighttime spectacular) and that is testimony to the Gavin Greenaway score (he also did BraviSEAmo! and the music is the only redeeming feature of that show) and the great emotions conjured up. But it is devoid of characters and to many Disney is all about the characters. However it just fits Epcot like a glove. IllumiNations broke the mould for me and demonstrated that you don't need everything to be flooded with characters.
Originally Posted By leemac <<The music falls a little flat with me though.>> Irishfan - you reall should check out the CD. The music has so many nuances to it that even the park's awful sound system can't deal with. I would love OLC to tell me why they have the worst performance corridor sound system of all the Disney theme parks.
Originally Posted By tcsnwhite ^I agree Lee that the music to Jubilation! is simply stunning! Some of the best they have produced in a long time. It's not the "catchiest" of scores that always gets you clapping along...but I think they tried to go for a more emotional feel to tie the audience in...and it definitely has that emotional, sweeping, cinematic feel to it, while still be very upbeat. I also wasn't impressed with the music at first, so all those who are a bit unsure, I suggest getting the cd and blasting that sucker through your home sound system...it's AMAZING. So many little things you can't hear on vids, or I'm sure even in the parks. Lee is right, there are many nuances to it. I really enjoy Steven picking Mark Hammond to do the music again. I LOVED what he did with Parade of Dreams and he has given a fresh new sound to the classic Disney sound, and "Welcome" is expertly produced. I can see that brought some of that feel over to Jubilation!, but gave it its own identity and feel, and really improved upon it. Again, I highly suggest getting the parade soundtrack and really taking it all in. As for the parade itself, I just astounded by Jubilation! Thank you Steven and the WDI-CE team for finally doing something a little different...some may not get it, but I do. It's still classic Disney, but without bringing out the same old concept of unit after unit depicting on blockbuster Disney animated film to the next. It's outside of the box without being totally outside...if you get my drift. I'm a little shocked that the folks on several boards are a little let down...but hey, I understand. Everyone will take to it differently. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that this is a bit more in the style that the US parks(well DL with POD) and Paris have taken with the overall style, rather than the typical TDR style that has been done for a long while (and that's not a bad thing, I enjoy that too). As for the overall Japanese/TDR audience...I wonder how they are taking to it, as a whole?
Originally Posted By leemac <<As for the overall Japanese/TDR audience...I wonder how they are taking to it, as a whole?>> It is always a slow process with the local audience. I remember seeing Mythica when it first launched and crowd had no idea what to do. Hence why they have added the new character chants and clearer interactive moments (both of which I don't agree with but the audience wanted them) to Mythica. The crowd was appreciative last week (and there was a lot of rain at the end of the week). The real test was that guests now want to try and see who is in every bubble (the artist that did the initial creative layouts uses bubbles as her motif). They are even camping out in front of Partners to make sure they can see the Mickey float during the play mode to spot all of the characters (which is also why there is the melody of Be Our Guest and Whole New World - look at the bubbles!). I still can't decide on my favorite - I think it has to be the Sprite (with Song of the South and Winnie the Pooh) but I love the Dumbo float too.
Originally Posted By tcsnwhite what was the name of the artist who did the creative layouts? if you can say. did she/he design the floats?
Originally Posted By leemac I can say - Ilene Meyer - I believe her website is meyerworld.com Very interesting design style. Ultimately Jubilation! was conceived and directed by Steven Davison.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< the TDR mindset is entirely character-driven and so it is the task of both WDI and WDI-Creative Entertainment to demonstrate to them it is possible to have a great show without massive character displays. Mythica is the perfect example (and originally was to have no characters at all) - the Fab Five and Chip 'n' Dale have minimal roles - it is about the story. >>> The minimal role of characters didn't bother me at all. Although the characters rightfully have a prominent role in TDL, I agree that the notion that they should dominate TDR and especially TDS is disappointing. Mickey at the beginning of BraviSEAmo! is a perfect example of a character just glued onto something for the sake of having a character. But for a TDL parade (as oppposed to something at TDS), it seems like fighting a losing battle to try to de-emphasize characters. Leemac, you mention wanting to use J! as a way to widen the audience for TDR beyond the current guest population - do you think that de-emphasizing characters at TDL (as opposed to TDS) is the right way to go about this?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I also wasn't impressed with the music at first, so all those who are a bit unsure, I suggest getting the cd and blasting that sucker through your home sound system...it's AMAZING. So many little things you can't hear on vids, or I'm sure even in the parks. Lee is right, there are many nuances to it. >>> <<< you reall should check out the CD. The music has so many nuances to it that even the park's awful sound system can't deal with. >>> But that's just the thing. I'll probably do exactly the above before I see the parade again, and may as a result have a different perspective. But is that the way a parade should be designed? If you need to listen to the nuances that are not present in the actual performance in order to appreciate the performance, that seems to be a fatal and rather fundamental show design flaw in my book. Certainly, any new, expanded part of the guest population that isn't already going to the Tokyo parks isn't going to sit at home listening to the soundtrack through their home stereos before seeing the parade in the park. <<< I would love OLC to tell me why they have the worst performance corridor sound system of all the Disney theme parks. >>> I didn't know that. But I have to ask: for what venue was J! designed for? Wasn't it designed to be performed in TDL? If the end result is something that can't be properly performed in that venue, then there's something wrong with the design, independent of any legitimate problems the venue might have.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But I have to ask: for what venue was J! designed for? Wasn't it designed to be performed in TDL? If the end result is something that can't be properly performed in that venue, then there's something wrong with the design, independent of any legitimate problems the venue might have.*** That is an excellent point. Maybe they were hoping for an upgrade? It is weird if true (and I've no reason to doubt Lee's opinion on it). I always knew the system sucked, but thought it was pretty much the same in all that parks. Or at least I assumed that the newer parks had better systems. Plus why would Tokyo be so bad, the freakin hi tech hi fi capital of the planet!
Originally Posted By leemac <<I didn't know that. But I have to ask: for what venue was J! designed for? Wasn't it designed to be performed in TDL? If the end result is something that can't be properly performed in that venue, then there's something wrong with the design, independent of any legitimate problems the venue might have.>> They don't have the updated audio system that the other MKs have - it isn't just a question of quality of sound but also the phasing which is poor. Try watching the parade from the hub - the bleed is awful.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Leemac, you mention wanting to use J! as a way to widen the audience for TDR beyond the current guest population - do you think that de-emphasizing characters at TDL (as opposed to TDS) is the right way to go about this?>> I don't think OLC see it in that mindset just yet. They will need to at some point though - their core market is ageing and shrinking - they need to find a way to keep the existing audience occupied (think less thrill rides) and a way to attract new guests. Elements like Cirque are perfect - it will attract a completely different clientele to the resort - although they might not appreciate the long schlep through Ikspiari! I think it is about finding a new way to present entertainment in the park. Not everything should be character-driven which is the case for the vast majority of special events these days. That is great for the core audience but TDR should be willing to push the envelope a little. Be more adventurous about their offerings. As I said earlier - it is a delicating balancing act and I'm not sure any of us know how to achieve it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I'm not sure any of us know how to achieve it.*** I do. They'll have to pay me a lot for the secret though...I'm pitching it to Vegas first.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Elements like Cirque are perfect - it will attract a completely different clientele to the resort - although they might not appreciate the long schlep through Ikspiari! >>> I'm willing to bet that the Ikspiari merchants will appreciate it, especially the restaurants. Speaking of Ikspiari merchants and blood, I noticed that the blood donation center has been replaced with a DoCoMo service center. I poked my head in there briefly, and it seemed to be doing a brisk business. DoCoMo seems to be a better fit than the Red Cross.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< They don't have the updated audio system that the other MKs have - it isn't just a question of quality of sound but also the phasing which is poor. Try watching the parade from the hub - the bleed is awful. >>> The audio on the jtcent.com video certainly seemed jumbled, but I attributed that to the camera being between two zones - there's not much you can do about that. Regarding the hub, I guess I never noticed that since I rarely watch a parade from the hub. When I saw it live, I didn't really notice sound problems (other than not particularly liking the soundtrack ).
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Not everything should be character-driven which is the case for the vast majority of special events these days. >>> Would you put the "synergy" aspect that's going on in the US parks in the same category, or is it something different? Iger has made it clear that any new major addition to the parks (or perhaps just the MKs) is going to have a tie-in with other Disney intellectual properties, especially the movies. I see the obvious reasons for doing this, but it also removes something that was special from the parks: stories and environments that existed only in the parks such that there was only one place to experience them. I think it's just a little less special if all you get is a physical manifestation of the 5 most recent Disney/Pixar blockbusters.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'm willing to bet that the Ikspiari merchants will appreciate it, especially the restaurants. >> I tend to avoid the place like the plague - I really detest it but even I was shocked at how many tenants have pulled out recently. I must have missed the likes of J. Crew pulling out. I think I counted 12 new outlets in the past month (not literally - on the posters launching the stores!) and considering there are no new units then I presume they are all replacements. Good news that there are companies out there wishing to be in Ikspiari but not good that they never seem to last long. That said I only discovered the grocery store and Maruzen in the basement on this trip. Shows you have observant I am! Usually only visit Monsoon when eating there - but found a great Japanese on this trip that we ate at - it is on the same level as Monsoon but tucked in the corner overlooking the roadway to the park. Excellent food - especially for a veggie! Still hate the place though and would rather do to the local mall. Great curry there.
