Originally Posted By RoadTrip Opinions are like belly buttons... everybody has one. Or 101 Dalmatians.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper The problems with fastpass have nothing to do with "fair". There are much more systematic problems that fans should look at before going to the fairness argument.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Just because I use FP to my advantage while a first timer gets confused by it doesn't mean that they system is flawed.>> It is flawed, pure and simple. <<But it seems to me that there are solutions to them all that beat throwing the baby out with the bathwater.>> Yeah, by reopening the 2nd floor of the Imagination Pavallion, running Star Tours and the Great Movie Ride at full capacity, by opening the Wonders of Life Pavallion so that it is open all the time which includes opening the Making of me, and Body Wars. And opening Carousel of Progress full time. That brings up to adding more rides/ attractions to DHS and DAK!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<ORDDU: Before Fast Pass came along, guests didn't have to worry about planning around such nonsense. You could take your time to eat meals or meet up with a friend whenever they arrived without having to stress over what time you had to get a fast pass, use it or whatever. With Fast Pass it creates more headaches than it solves. But if this NextGen situation is implemented, things will be even worse. Gone are the days when you could simply show up at the parks without the added burden or worrying over scheduling your entire day around Fast pass or whatever else they're about to come up with.>> Orddu as I said in post #141; The more concerning thing here is how guests subjugate themselves to the FastPass system to the point that the single determining factor as to "when" a guest actually gets to experience a ride or attraction in a Disney park is dependent on a machine spitting out a piece of paper and NOT the guest or Disney! So if it is 10 AM and you get a FastPass and the machine spits out a piece of paper that says 8 PM that night, then guests willfully customize that days park visit accordingly. Crazy!
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Yes, you did say that, Kennesaw Tom, duckling, and we applaud you for it. What we're trying to promote is an idea that Uncle Walt had--to make his amusement parks as much fun for EVERYONE at the same time instead of pitting guests against each other in such competitive ways. Instead of looking at it all from such a selfish manner, it's better to want what's best for EVERYBODY.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I have to agree Orddu! I'm not willing to blame a single castmember or fix a broken FastPass system till we begin discussing reopening the 2nd floor to the Imagination Pavillion, reopening the Wonders of Life Pavallion full time and reopening Body Wars, The Making of me, running Star Tours and the Great Movie Ride at full capacity, opening Carousel of Progress fulltime, and then begin discussing adding additional rides/ attractions to DHS and DAK. Once that is done, by all means lets discuss FastPass! I would have included 20K, but Disney already has plans in the works for reclaiming that area for guest usage.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I'm calling BS here. I remember the time before fastpass, and I always got every big ride done without waiting in terribly long lines.< And you know what you can do with your BS call, HS. Your experience and mine differ. I stand by my statement. >Was there anything unfair about having to show up at rope-drop to get on Space Mountain with a short wait? No? Then how can it POSSIBLY be unfair to have to show up by noon or so to get a Fastpass for a short wait at Space Mountain? You get at least an extra three-four hours to haul your butt of of bed!< Excellently put, Trippy, and it makes perfect sense, Morva. EVERYONE HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING A FP. The only people at a disadvantage are the folks who show up to the parks at a lazy 2 or 3pm. And pre-FP they'd be faced with long lines on the most popular attractions. Advantage - FP!
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: So, anyway, Kennesaw Tom, duckling, it would appear that what's needed here--for some--are the proper reasoning skills with which to come to a conclusion much more suitable and fair for theme park goers everywhere. It's comforting to see that you are one of those with good reasoning.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<The only people at a disadvantage are the folks who show up to the parks at a lazy 2 or 3pm. And pre-FP they'd be faced with long lines on the most popular attractions.>>> Everyone is at a disadvantage when in EPCOT when the Wonders of Life Pavallion with two rides/ attractions is closed. And half of the Imagination Pavallion is permanetly closed. Which ALL use to be open to guests. Carousel of Progress is only open seasonally at best. Diamond Horseshoe Revue is now "the" on property site to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Star Tours and the Great Movie Ride are continuously run at half capacity! And DHS and DAK are lacking in rides/ attractions!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<It's comforting to see that you are one of those with good reasoning.>> As I said... I"m not making case for or against FastPass! I believe the FastPass system is flawed. I'm willing to let others draw their own conclusions. I think the "ONLY" way to alleviate the excessive wait times for rides in any of the WDW parks is to open closed rides and add addtional rides/ attractions! I can't under score that more! It boggles my mind how posters are trying to "fix" a intrinsically flawed system. There is a saying, when you kick feces around, no matter how much you kick it, it is still feces.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: A rather smelly occupation, if you ask me, but I believe my little sister takes pleasure in doing that sort of thing from time to time...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip You keep talking about Carousel of Progress being closed and that does not match my experience at all. I go to WDW during January, one of the slowest times of the year, and it has been open every visit I've made for the past 5 years. Yes, before that time it was open sporadically, but that is no longer the case from my experience. Do you REALLY think reopening Wonders of Life would reduce lines for Test Track and Soarin'? In the final years that pavilion was open you could have set off a bomb in the building and not injured anyone. There are already several attractions in Future World that are almost always walk-ons... adding a couple more walk-ons aren't going to do ANYTHING to reduce waits for the headliners. To do that you need another headliner... not the reopening of an attraction that was closed due to lack of interest. As for the second floor of Imagination... the current ImageWorks has just as many activity stations as the old second floor did... there just isn't as much open space. Sure, put a great NEW attraction on the second floor and you might accomplish something... but the more popular second-floor activities have already been replicated in the existing ImageWorks. You will ALWAYS have popular attractions that result in excessive waits. Adding a new popular attraction may move where the wait occurs, but you will still have one. The standby line for Tower of Terror has been greatly reduced since Midway Mania opened, but the line for Midway Mania is worse than Tower of Terror EVER was. The Fastpass system attempts to help guests experience the most popular attractions with a minimal wait. Just adding new attractions WILL NOT DO THAT (though I'd like to see it happen anyway)! Yes, Fastpass has problems, but by and large it accomplishes its goal for those who know how to use it. And knowing how to use it isn't exactly rocket science.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Hmmmm....I'm not so certain about that, Road Trip, duckling. It certainly seems like a Rocket scientist education is needed for some in order to fully comprehend what Fast Pass is all about--certainly in terms of it's disadvantages.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORGOCH: How long is ya all gonna' keep jawin' 'bout all this fast gas, anyways? I got FROGS ta ketch!! So come on! ORDDU: You go ahead, dear. I have more important things to do...
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom RoadTrip, it is simple liquid dynamics. The more releases from a pipe the less pressure and the more places for the water to flow. Of course more rides/ attractions would decrease the wait times. And I'm just asking for Disney to reopen places that were formerly open to guests. As it is right now the Wonders of Life Pavallion isn't on any EPCOT map. It makes no sense to me that we are trying to fix a flawed system when the answer is to reopen places that were former open and add additional rides/ attractions. I would think it is a no brainer.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Since the laws of physicas and liquid dynamics apply, and since Disney is unwilling to reopen places that use to be open to guests and add additional rides/ attractions. The guests responce it to spend a day or two at Universal and/or Sea World. I guess that is one solution.
Originally Posted By danyoung >... it would appear that what's needed here--for some--are the proper reasoning skills with which to come to a conclusion much more suitable and fair for theme park goers everywhere.< Let's cut the crap, Morva. There are reasonable arguments on both sides of this long standing issue. What you're doing is basically calling me stupid, and it's really rude. I've had a long time problem with you and your delusions, but I've done my best to play nice and deal with your comments as if you were a rational person. Keep up the condescending barbs like the above and the gloves are really gonna come off.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom danyoung I don't think that post was directed at you specifically. Your not the only one here that likes FastPass. I would venture to say that most guests like the FastPass system and are convinced it works. I think where Witches is coming from is that some of us believe the FastPass system is flawed, have been pointing out our concerns to which the responce has been; I'm a FastPass expert and it works for me then it must be good, and to hell with guests that are too stupid to not use it or understand it, to hell with guests who show up late to the parks they should have known better, those worthless castmembers aren't enforcing the FastPass return times at all. Anytime anyone wants to give a plausible responce to any of the cases we have put forth, go for it!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Or better yet; I live in CA and have been to WDW once in a blue moon. Here in DLR we have one ride that uses FastPass and there is never a line... so FastPass is the most fair system in the world and all you Walt Disney World employees and guest that have visited WDW since you were kids have no idea what your talking about and I'm the expert here! Or, your just being emotional about this whole thing and everything you have said it totally irrelivant since the statistics don't prove it and despite the fact that your pointing out 1 1/2 Pavallions in EPCOT have been closed for a decade now or more.. that means nothing and it is nothing more than an emotional responce and FastPass is great and I'm a FastPass Jedi!
