Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<But there is absolutely no need, nor should there be, for anyone with a child to be able to enter some special roped area. Having a child is not a disability, it's a lifestyle choice. You chose to have the kids, now deal with that choice at parade time at theme parks.>> I'm going to have to disagree. Apparently the MK does offer special seating for elders and disabled. But I also firmly believe that all Disney parks should have sitdown viewing available to guests who prefer to be sitting while watching the parade. Anyone who would like to sitdown and watch a parade should be able to sitdown and watch a parade as long as there is seating available. As far as I know right now that is not an option at the MK or any other WDW park. I don't see the arguement here as the determining factor for comfortably viewing a MK parade dependent on disability or age. It's darn hot in Orlando, it's humid like you would believe, there are times when any of us regardless of if we have children or not, would like to be able to sit down ocassionally in the MK and yes that includes when watching parades. Look, I'm from the south. I can handle the heat. But WDW gets guests from all over the world. And many of these guests have no idea of the heat, humidity, crowds and sheer size of the parks at WDW. What is the big deal with having a designated place to sit down? If Disney can build show buildings at DAK specifically for people experiencing the Wild Africa Trek VIP tour then they can probably put a few bleachers in the MK, a park specifially designed with children in mind.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Sure, seated areas for parades would be great for anyone. But in your original post you lumped in "families with children" into the small demographic of the disabled and wheelchair-bound who should have special seating areas. Choosing to have children does not mean you are suddenly disabled. If you can't deal with your choice to have children during parade time, then you either shouldn't have chosen to have the kids or you should leave them at home. But seating areas open to anyone who enters a Disney theme park, regardless of their chosen lifestyle, would be a great idea. They've done that before with preferred viewing areas that come at a price and/or include a dining element. Otherwise, it's a parade and you just wander up and watch it. The climate in Orlando is absolutely horrible 8 or 9 months out of the year, and it's never fun at parade time. But again, you can choose to visit Disneyland that has a dramatically better climate, and also has a dramatically better (and newer) afternoon parade. CADCT Parade is one of the most embarassing things about the current WDW operation. It speaks volumes about the way TDO views its theme park customers; they are apparently either too stupid or too unsophisticated to give them a better parade, or at least one that hasn't been running for 20 years while just changing the jingle and the wigs on the dancing girls every few years.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<But in your original post you lumped in "families with children" into the small demographic of the disabled and wheelchair-bound who should have special seating areas.>> Your right and I should not have said that. After giving it some thought, I thought to myself, darn after a long day in the parks, I want to be able to sit down too. Sorry, had a selfish moment there!
Originally Posted By TP2000 This YouTube video of the Magic Kingdom parade circa 2011 pretty much sums up how things work in Orlando at parade time; Old, tired, corporate, rainy, bland, humid, pain-in-the-neck marketing drivel. To watch how this parade route transforms in just the first 3 minutes of this video says it all, and this happens quite regularly in mid-afternoon for the majority of the year in central Florida. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23lf3jmHC7g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...f3jmHC7g</a> Then you watch a video of Disneyland's parade circa 2011, and it's like the polar opposite in both presentation, quality, and park viewing environment. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZzoMtGMc3I&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=related</a> Now if Disney wants to save me a Fastpass, or even charge me a small fee to have a nice seat and a glass of lemonade, to watch that Disneyland spectacular, I'd be all for it. But setting up a Fastpass for the current crop of WDW parades in the Orlando environment, especially that turkey called Celebrate A Marketing Dream Come True? That's an idea that seems best left in a TDO conference room somewhere.
Originally Posted By TP2000 "Sorry, had a selfish moment there!" Understood. And don't worry, many of us have wanted a seat by mid-afternoon during a marathon Disney theme park day. ;-)
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Then you watch a video of Disneyland's parade circa 2011, and it's like the polar opposite in both presentation, quality, and park viewing environment.>> We (WDW visitors) been SCREWED!
Originally Posted By Manfried They used to run parades for special seasons. And they would pull out all the stops for them. Now they run parades all the time and they don't seem that special at all.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> The FP system is fair, while it may be true that the humans who implement it may not be. But this is true of any system. << False. The FP system may be fair in theory, but in practice it's a !@#%ing mess. The CM element absolutely reflects the problems with FP in practice.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<They used to run parades for special seasons. And they would pull out all the stops for them. Now they run parades all the time and they don't seem that special at all.>> Manfried, Disney has been running parades since opening day of DL! I bet there isn't a day in Disney history that they didn't run a parade with the exception of perhaps a hurricane in FL or earthquake in CA. Parades are synonymous with the Disney parks. In terms of parades lacking.. WDW has been cutting back on live preformers for years now. In my opinion the only MK parades that are exceptional are the ones for special partys (with and additional fee) such as MNSSHP or MVMCP.
Originally Posted By Manfried I stand somewhat corrected. Disneyland did not start running parades every day until 1975 with the launch of America on Parade. The parade of the band down Main Street is not what I would call a parade. They did not run the Electrical Parade in the off season. They ran a special parade for Easter. Then there was the famous Fantasy on Parade they ran for the Christmas season.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""It's darn hot in Orlando, it's humid like you would believe, there are times when any of us regardless of if we have children or not, would like to be able to sit down ocassionally in the MK and yes that includes when watching parades."" Wahhhh, i have kids w/ me in Orlando in the summer Wahhhh. I'm not going to take responsibility for this wahhh. I'm ENTITLED like TV reality show stars WAAHHH!!! Disney should bend over for my enitiled mind WAHHHHH! I heard it all when i was a CM and we always scoffed at people like you......
Originally Posted By HMButler79 ""And many of these guests have no idea of the heat, humidity,"" FUn Fact: It's called MSN Weather. Amazing tool
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Manfried I think your point is well taken. I believe your point is that Disneyland would have various parades at various times during the year. Now, at WDW it seems your stuck with the same parade until another one completes it's World Tour of Japan and France.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Wahhhh, i have kids w/ me in Orlando in the summer Wahhhh. I'm not going to take responsibility for this wahhh. I'm ENTITLED like TV reality show stars WAAHHH!!! Disney should bend over for my enitiled mind WAHHHHH! I heard it all when i was a CM and we always scoffed at people like you......>> As I suspected.... you were a true "guest-friendly" CM. [rolleyes]
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Wahhhh, i have kids w/ me in Orlando in the summer Wahhhh. I'm not going to take responsibility for this wahhh. I'm ENTITLED like TV reality show stars WAAHHH!!! Disney should bend over for my enitiled mind WAHHHHH!>> Dude, I'm not the one providing folks with parade viewable space using the FastPass system. Obviously there is a need since the WDW management team only seems to respond by knee jerk reaction. Also, what is the expectation here? That I bring a lawn chair with me when I enter a Disney park? Gosh darn it! How dare I consider that at some point during a daily visit to a WDW park I may want to sit down! Next I'm probably going to want eat at a sit down restaurant instead of counter service. Not sure where you came up with this entitlement thing. It is not as if sitting down while watching a parade is a foreign concept. Like duh, instead of people sitting down at the curb along sidewalks of Main Street ( where people typically walk) , Disney actually provides some sort of place where people could actually sitdown while watching the parades. I mean you HAVE NOTICED all those huddled masses sitting down at the curb on Main Street right. And this whole time I thought sidewalks and street were for walking. Who knew that at the MK for several hours each day they were spectator seating too. <rolls eyes> I should be more careful, some intrepid Disney imagineer is likely to read my post and act on it!
Originally Posted By danyoung > Now under the FastPass system if you don't have a FastPass then your going to have to wait, no ifs ands or buts about it!< Tom, I can see this argument against FP's. But the other side of that argument is that, pre-FP, you used to have to stand in long lines for some attractions unless you got there at the beginning of the day. Now, with FP, except for the busiest days when FP's sell out early, you can get a FP, come back in a few hours, and ride with no wait. In the old days the only time I'd ride Splash or Space Mountain was right at the beginning of the day or right at the end. Now I can ride just about any time, as long as FP's haven't run out (and they don't execpt for the really busy times of the year, or on attractions like Soarin' that are extremely popular). So in either scenario, I'm in better shape for the day if I get there early. The difference is that I can enjoy some of the popular rides later in the day, rather than running from ride to ride and trying to cram it all in within that first golden hour.
Originally Posted By Manfried <<Now, at WDW it seems your stuck with the same parade until another one completes it's World Tour of Japan and France.>> Yeah, its seems that way to me too.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I think in some ways here I am putting the cart before the horse. So here goes the FastPass conversation: <<Tom, I can see this argument against FP's.>> My intent here is actually not to make an argument against FastPass. My intent here is to state the fact and reality of the FastPass system. First off, I believe the FastPass system is flawed and I will explain my reasoning. I am not going to place any blame on any castmembers, who in my opinion are trying to make the best of what I believe they ( and quests )preceive to be a flawed system as well. << But the other side of that argument is that, pre-FP, you used to have to stand in long lines for some attractions unless you got there at the beginning of the day.>> It use to be everyone was in the same line. All FastPass is about is "bumping" someone else so your in line next. So, I don't by the "Disney just wants to get people out of being in lines". Wrong, no matter how you look at it someone is going to be in line often for an hour or greater. With FastPass there is always winners and losers. I'm not so sure it is in a parks best intrest to devise a system that intrinsically has winners and losers. Bad Show! I'm not at a park to be a winner or a loser. I'm at a park to enjoy the rides/ attractions. If everyone is in the same line then everyone has an equal opportunity to enjoy that ride. Sure have single rider lines, not a big deal. But your basic standby line taking over and hour because guests with FastPass are always given presidence, that's crazy! So I guess most guests are content with the FastPass system, winning on some lines ( by utilizing FastPass ) and losing on others when they have to use the plain old standby line. Furthermore, what makes no sense to guests is when some rides/ attraction have FastPass and others do not. It is not as if ALL rides and attractions at WDW are a part of FastPass. I have yet to witness someone complaining about the lines in Nemo, Pirates, Its A Small World, Haunted Mansion or Spaceship Earth. But I have seen lots of people complaining about the excessive wait time in the Standby lines for Kilimanjaro, Toy Story, Soarin, The Great Movie Ride, EE, Kali, BTMRR just to name a few. When you add into the equation that some rides notoriously are run at half capacity; The Great Movie Ride, Universe of Energy, often times BTMRR. The situation becomes WORSE!!! You can also make the arguement that many of those people entering a queue for Kilimajaro, etc.... knowing there is going to be a two hour wait, would catch a show and then come back to Kilimajaro at a later times when the queue lines are not so lengthy. Under the FastPass system getting into a standby line on rides like TestTrack and Kilimajaro is a crap shot at best since there is no way of knowing how many FastPass users will being getting on that ride ahead of you. When you get into the standby queue line you have no idea just how long you are going to be in that line. There have been times when I have gotten into Standby lines with the queue saying 30 minutes and then standing in line for a good 90 minutes or more. The queue signs are not always a reliable gauge for actual queue line duration. Again my argument: FastPass is a flawed system.
Originally Posted By TP2000 Great thoughts Tom. All the Fastpass issues aside, it would be super helpful if Disney could simply put up accurate wait times in front of their rides. The way they track and display the wait times now is so sloppy and inaccurate, and the whole thing seems to just be a college kid in a baggy polyester uniform eyeballing the queue and punching in an overstated number he thinks it should be. There's no science to it, and very little oversight, and the wait times are almost always vastly different than what the sign says (either up or down). I can understand a margin of error of 5 or 10 minutes, but to have wait times overstated by up to half an hour, or worse understated by half an hour or more, is just pathetic. All this technology they blab on about using in the parks, when all they really need to be doing is communicating accurate wait times better. It would be a lot cheaper to just do that, instead of pile on all this Fastpass and Advance Reservations and Smartphone Apps for the parks, with batallions of white collar dunderheads in cubicles to keep it all going. Just post accurate wait times consistently, and 80% of their expensive "NextGen" theme park socio-engineering would become obsolete immediately.
