Originally Posted By sjhym333 Work a couple of days at Disney and then see what you think. I am logging off LP. These constant round and round are giving me a headache. You guys have fun.
Originally Posted By danyoung > If I had a $1 for every guest that I had to explain the system to on a daily basis I could retire.< I don't doubt that this is true. But then there are still people who ask when the 3 o'clock parade is. With a constantly changing clientele and a continuing flow of new people, you are always going to find people who don't understand the system. I'd bet the same thing used to happen under the old ticket system and people would want to ride Pirates with an A ticket. But I'd betcha that for every person who is confused by the system there are a dozen who use it well (and you never hear from them). >I reiterate, Soarin without FP would average a 30 min wait most days instead of the 60-90 min it currently has.< That may be true. But with FP I don't wait even 30 minutes - I wait 5. And that's a huge value for me. And everyone who's standing in that 90 minute queue has the same option as I do.
Originally Posted By ChiMike To #111 ...And that is what is most commonly lost on the online defenders of FP. Because it helps THEM visit attraction X for the 382th time in their life without having to wait in a long line, then it HAS TO be a good system. When most of the folks who work at the park think it violates the Keys (Courtesy and Show), when most of the folks who have experience in operations think it is more trouble than it is worth, and when guests who aren't self-interested admit that they only benefit from it from fine-tuning its use, well then, it is a very clear answer in my book. The only reason FP came about was greed in the idea that it would bring in more $$$$ through increased food and merchandise sales. By the time they realized that didn't pan out, it didn't matter, because FP had then become integral to their Destination Disney initiative which grew into the over-exposed and over-budgeted NEXTGEN program.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>Work a couple of days at Disney and then see what you think. I am logging off LP. These constant round and round are giving me a headache. You guys have fun.<< Wish you wouldn't. Don't get bothered by offbase comments. All it would take is one shift for some of these folks to work, before they would be singing a different tune on FP. For some reason they know what crowds like more than people who encounter them every day. Because, as we all know, all opinions are equal.
Originally Posted By leobloom Life's too short for in-depth FP analysis. Like a few others have said, work at FP return at an attraction and your perspective will change.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Your insights are very helpful, sjhym333, duckling, so please don't let those who don't understand your common sense discourage you. There will always be the thick headed among us who post with blinders on and who won't even try to understand what you're saying. But there are many more who DO understand your valid points. So please come back!
Originally Posted By danyoung >...when most of the folks who have experience in operations think it is more trouble than it is worth, and when guests who aren't self-interested admit that they only benefit from it from fine-tuning its use, well then, it is a very clear answer in my book.< Y'know, I don't really disagree with you on this. Look, I have no idea (and I'm betting that most people on this board are similarly clueless) about the real operational situation with FP. I know that it works very well for me, and I know that with just a bit of information it can work well for everybody. Now, do the negatives of the program exceed the positives? I have no way of knowing. There have been a few posts here from knowledgeable people that have made me think, and that's a good thing. I'll continue to use FP, and I'll continue to enjoy it. But if it were to go away, I'll still somehow manage to enjoy my WDW visits. >There will always be the thick headed among us who post with blinders on and who won't even try to understand what you're saying.< And then there will be those who have well thought out points of view that disagree with yours, Morva. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean the poster is thick headed and has blinders on.
Originally Posted By Manfried <<They are feigning ignorance in an attempt to game the system.>> Which is what all of the folks using the FP system are trying to do. Get rid of it please. People who don't want to wait in line should pay a premium for it.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Don't blame a CM for following the rules.>> I have said it before, I will say it again, I absolutely will not blame castmembers for the FastPass system which I believe they preceive as a "flawed" system. And so far no one has addressed the reality that after parades and shows FastPass lines get slammed! It is hardly fair that when you get into a standby line on Toy Story and told the line is 20 minutes. Then a parade gets out and suddenly the standby line soars to 2 hours because the FastPass line got slammed. I call that a flawed system!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<And everyone who's standing in that 90 minute queue has the same option as I do.>> Yeah, that because of the FastPass system there are winners and losers. If you can use FastPass then your a "winner". But if for whatever reason you are unable to get a FastPass then your a "loser" and get to wait in crazy excessive lines. Just what I want to experience when I'm shelling out $100 a day per person while on vaction in extreme heat and humidity! <NOT>
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom ((>>Work a couple of days at Disney and then see what you think. I am logging off LP. These constant round and round are giving me a headache. You guys have fun.<< Wish you wouldn't. Don't get bothered by offbase comments. All it would take is one shift for some of these folks to work, before they would be singing a different tune on FP. For some reason they know what crowds like more than people who encounter them every day. Because, as we all know, all opinions are equal.)) Well said ChiMike, well said!
Originally Posted By danyoung >It is hardly fair that when you get into a standby line on Toy Story and told the line is 20 minutes. Then a parade gets out and suddenly the standby line soars to 2 hours because the FastPass line got slammed.< What I don't understand is the feeling that this is somehow different from the way it used to be. If a pre-FP line was 20 minutes long and a parade gets out, the line swells to maybe 90 minutes for a while. What's the diff?
Originally Posted By leobloom In the pre-FP days, you're not behind the parade crowd, if you're already in line. I think that's what Tom is saying.
Originally Posted By ChiMike Huge Dan. Huge. What tom is saying is that if he gets in a standby line now at 3:15p at Midway Mania and the parade/show ends at 3:25p, what was a 30 minute wait when Tom entered the queue at 3:15p can be a 90 minute wait by 3:45p when the crowds letting out decend in the FP return line with their FPs in hand because their guide book with insider secrets tell them to. Especially when 33% of the FPs are expired. Since the FP return queue gets slammed, Tom, in standby, just stands their while CMs hold standby while they flush the backed up FP return. In pre FP days the crowds after parades/shows would still swarm rides like Midway Mania, no doubt. Ths difference was that before the swarms of guests would have entered the queue behind Tom, now with FP they jump ahead of him because they were standing in line on the parade route.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Huge Dan. Huge. What tom is saying is that if he gets in a standby line now at 3:15p at Midway Mania and the parade/show ends at 3:25p, what was a 30 minute wait when Tom entered the queue at 3:15p can be a 90 minute wait by 3:45p when the crowds letting out decend in the FP return line with their FPs in hand because their guide book with insider secrets tell them to. Especially when 33% of the FPs are expired. Since the FP return queue gets slammed, Tom, in standby, just stands their while CMs hold standby while they flush the backed up FP return.>> Which comes back to my point about enforcing the window. I realize from recent comments that CM are just "following orders", though some earlier posts (by a CM) made it sound like some discretion on their part was involved. So Disney has created a bad situation, and has made it impossible for CM to do anything about it since the expectation has been created. Which comes ONCE AGAIN to my idea of bar codes and electronic enforcement. Take the CM out of the line of fire. Why has no once commented on the idea, good or bad? It certainly is technically possible, would remove the biggest problem with FP, and would not leave the CM facing the anger of the guest. The system could be coded to allow a small variation to the window (perhaps 5-10 minutes) to account for differences in clocks, etc. But there is no reason to let it continue as it is now, or to scrap it all together. Thinking that the only solution is to scrap it shows a massive lack of imagination in my opinion. As for Morva… say what you will. I don’t talk with two imaginary friends or eat toads... ;-)
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub I agree with RT. Perhaps the FP with the awkward return time for a family with REAL Dining conflicts can be offered a replacement upon payment for that meal reservation. Maybe FP needs a new name and new policy. Last year our local mall had a Santa FP available so it is definitely time for Disney to create a new improved marketing sensation. Perhaps a Golden E-Ticket available online. For a price of course. Maybe a gold for the most popular attractions and silver for anything else. I know the concept can not be offered Free So pricing needs to be considered. What price factors are important to you and Disney. They are incurring tremendous costs for these machines and operations. We are paying for this Free FP anyway in reality. AND I noticed many families paying for the Tour Guides to cater their trips. Have you ever seen the tour guides early early going around to get their FP quota for the day and then later seeing the family magically producing their e-tickets to get to the quick entry line? So Free FP has a valuable price to Disney. It is not equal to everybody. It is being dishonestly manipulated by castmembers and their friends on a daily basis and paying guests. I guess the idea I am asking for is a more honest intelligent discussion on LP. No offense intended to the few people on LP that love the FP because it always works for them. Consider that most of you make it work because you are visiting all by yourself so it is very easy to focus on the return window to get the next FP and easy to walk thru the crowds. I can be a happy FP too under those circumstances. But factor in a family with small children visiting once a year trying to accomplish Magic...and then try balancing going back and forth, bathroom trips,meals,naps or Break times. Under real life circumstances FP would be a challenge for you single people also!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<What I don't understand is the feeling that this is somehow different from the way it used to be. If a pre-FP line was 20 minutes long and a parade gets out, the line swells to maybe 90 minutes for a while. What's the diff?>> The difference is that before FastPass when I got in line the line wait "IS" 20 minutes. So unless the ride breaks down or there is an act of God, then I am going to get to enjoy the ride "IN" 20 minutes. And anyone getting in line behind me is told just how long the "wait" is.... so they can decide for themselves if they want to wait that long or not. Everyone knows getting into "the line" just how long their wait is expected to be. Heck, Nemo at DLR has signs up informing guests that for example their expected wait is 2 hour, and then 90 minutes, then one hour at various spots along the line. Your not getting into what your being told is a 20 minutes standby line and then because a parade got out 1,000 people are allowed ahead of you so your wait time soars to over 2 hours.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Which comes ONCE AGAIN to my idea of bar codes and electronic enforcement. Take the CM out of the line of fire. Why has no once commented on the idea, good or bad?>> I wouldn't mind it. But 99% of the guests that have been conditioned on not having them expire wouldn't be happy.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<But 99% of the guests that have been conditioned on not having them expire wouldn't be happy.>> That hasn't kept Disney from cutting back on every other perk they offer!! LOL
