Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<However, two lines instead of one is NOT the only difference. Demand is higher with FP, because more people are spurred to visit the attraction with the promise of low waits via FP.>> <<It is more than PERCEIVED, it is real. Because of fixed capacity, i.e. fixed supply, there is a rise in price. Price=Wait Time. Wait times for standby increase because there are more riders in the past who are trying to board the attraction via FP. Where in the past someone wouldn't wait 30 mins for the ride, they will now if they get a FP for a 5 minute wait.>> YEA!! An explanation that makes sense (and that I can understand). The promised short waits of Fastpass increases the number of people wanting to try the attraction resulting in longer waits for standby. Capacity is not reduced but DEMAND is increased. BINGO!
Originally Posted By u k fan <<<^^^The given return window is an hour...>>> I haven't been to WDW for years, but I'm sure it's usually less at DLP. I'll have to dig out an old FP and check. I think 30 minutes is about the longest at DLP!!!
Originally Posted By u k fan Just had a look at some google images of DLP FP's. It seems they change between 30 and 60 minute return windows on all the FP attractions (I'm guessing due to capacity). Nevermind!!!
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<2 kids in tow...just fine...what were their ages,how long has it been since you have been to DL or WDW>> 2009 and the kids were 7 and 4. The rest was a group of adults.
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>The other is that, again to appease complaining guests, more tickets are handed out than there should be<< Just want to circle back on something I failed to point out above. Another irony. FP was marketed as Disney listening to its guests. Disney had heard too many complaints about long lines, and instead of going Tom's route in building more attractions to replace those they shuttered, they went the far more advantageous route. Waits would no go down because of increased capacity. No. They would go down through Disney's Fastpass! Out were the costs of building additional attractions. Out were the operating costs of running and maintaining additional attractions. In were further admission price increases. In were the hope that the investment in FP would allow for more shopping and more dining. Less new attractions, less operating costs, more admission, dining, merchandise sales. ...Oh, and, of course less waits for the guests >wink<. That was the real reason for all this, right? The guests complaints, of course it was. Well, none of this panned out. Now we have guests who are addicted, umm, er, conditioned to not want to wait for anything. They are conditioned to no longer value large investments of the scale of BTMR or ToT enough to wait 25 minutes for their turn. .And guess what? The guests are STILL complaining. FPs run out too soon. Well, just go in there and have the computer distribute MORE! That's MORE guests who don't have to wait! What is that? What, the guests are still complaining? Okay, don't require enforcement of any of the rules that FP was originally setup with. See, guests will always complain. The trick is to do the best in minimizing those valid complaints. The whole "Lines are too long" routine had been around since 1955. It was apart of theme parks. The irony, is that FP didn't make the complaints go away. They just shifted. That's not how Disney use to solve serious guest complaints. Perhaps 'standing in line' isn't one of those.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 And I'm sorry if someone can't make to an attraction in the given time, then maybe they should budget their time a little better. Last time I went with the group some of us went back to the Contemporary to the Wave for a drink and some appetizers. We ga FP for Big Thunder but when we got back the time had passed. It was nobody's fault but our own. And since we're talking about fair, maybe they should let people who can't afford a Deluxe Resort to stay there one night, because you know that would be fair.
Originally Posted By Manfried Instead of spending money on the Fastpass system, Disney should use that money to build more attractions and spread the crowd out.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: You make a lot of sense, ChiMike, duckling--just as does sjhym333. Fast Pass only works for those who arrive at the park early enough to take advantage of it. What my sisters and I would like to see is a system that benefits ALL the guests who come to the parks on any given day. That's the most fair system of all and it was working just fine before Fast Pass was introduced. So glad to see there are still those who understand this.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip OCCUPY THE POLY!! Why should we be relegated to the All-Stars just because we can't afford the freight?? Plenty of room for sleeping bags in that HUGE lobby! ;-)
Originally Posted By ChiMike >>ORDDU: You make a lot of sense, ChiMike, duckling--just as does sjhym333.<< Thanks for the kind words Orddu! >>Fast Pass only works for those who arrive at the park early enough to take advantage of it. What my sisters and I would like to see is a system that benefits ALL the guests who come to the parks on any given day. That's the most fair system of all and it was working just fine before Fast Pass was introduced.<< Not to further frustrate the current situation, but the idea was floated when they were testing the FP concept only on MK's Space Mountain that perhaps they would only distribute X amount of tickets per hour. Which would be more inline with a virtual queue. If the threshold of tickets were distributed in a 60 minute window, the machines would temporarily stop distributing to allow a little time to catch up. This was under other FP rule assumptions such as enforced return windows and specific merge point ratios. I completely understood why they didn't go this route, if it was ever seriously considered to be adopted in the final scope of the project. It is interesting to think about however, since for you ORDDU, it would have meant that people coming later in the day would have ->equal/fair<- access to a virtual FP line as those coming in the morning.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom << it is time for Disney to give the advantage to their resort guests.>> Dude, at WDW, the resort guests ( including those staying at the Ft Wilderness Campground, Shades of Green, and Hilton in DTD ( not so sure about Swan and Dolphin )) get to take advantage of the Extra Magic Hours. Basically on property guests can either enter a different WDW park ech day two hours before opening or two hours after closing. Sounds like a Disney resort guest advantage to me!
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<Basically on property guests can either enter a different WDW park ech day two hours before opening or two hours after closing.>> One hour before opening, three after closing. But there should really be more perks for the resort guests for the ridiculous prices they pay.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Good luck filling those $300and plus rooms.>> Dude! When Dixie Landings ( now Port Orleans Riverside ), a Disney moderate resort opened it was the largest hotel in the world. And there are 3 Disney Moderate resorts with room prices in the $130-$150 range. The Disney Value resorts, and there are 3 of those so far with another coming on line next year, have prices ranging from $90 to $129 a night. Then there is the Ft Wilderness Campground which has affordable campsites, etc. I have no idea where the belief that ALL WDW hotel/ resort have to be expensively priced stuff comes from.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<Fast Pass only works for those who arrive at the park early enough to take advantage of it.>> Well then wouldn't the solution be to get the park early enough to take advantage of a FP.
Originally Posted By ChiMike What if you are flying in to Orlando in the morning and can only do one park every day? I know what my answer would be, but I would be curious to see yours based on your solution above.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I NEVER go to a park the day I arrive. That is the day to check-in, hang out, have a good meal and get a good Disney Buzz on before going to bed! LOL
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<(Unless you are talking about Easter week or the day after Thanksgiving, when after wandering the park for an hour or two I give up and go somewhere else. But it's been that way forever.)>> Here is another harsh reality of it all. That because of the FastPass system getting out of "whack" with huge crowds. Guests will intentionally avoid visiting WDW during peak weeks. Instead visiting WDW during other times of the year and in most cases taking their kids out of school. A missed opportunity for WDW in my opinion. I believe more people would visit WDW "IF" the crowd situations and ride/ attraction wait times were handled better. And again, I firmly believe that the most pressing issue is need for more rides/ attraction in the WDW parks. I refuse to come up with crazy schemes to "fix" FastPass when the entire 2nd floor of the Imagination Pavallion sits unused whit it was formerly available to all guests, Wonders of Life Pavallion only opens seasonly and it's 2 attractions ( one an E ticket, the other perhaps a C ticket ) are completely walled off with no plans of future use. Disney could at the very least take the 4 simulators and dump them over at Star Tours easily doubling that rides capacity ( or place them somewhere else in one of the parks) This whole notion that it is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars for a future ride at WDW is so bogus when you already have 4 E ticket simulators available to! Using something has got to be better than leaving it walled off with no hope of future use! And why is Star Tours and the Great Movie Ride ALWAYS run at half capacity? So come up with your "new" FastPass skymes, blame FastPass for increasingly excessive "wait" lines. But the fact remains that there is so much "less" in the parks now that historically have been available to guests all along. If Diseney opened up all the closed areas in various Pavallions, rides/ attractions and features available to guests in the MK, EPCOT and DHS there wouldn't be ridiculous standby wait times. Because the guests would be spread out on ALL the various rides/ attraction in the parks. You'd see ride/ attraction wait times drop dramatically. Now we get to DAK. There simply isn't enough rides and attractions in that park to begin with. This park absoultely needs more additional rides. So that opens the door to additional rides. ALL the WDW parks would benefit from additional rides. Additional rides would keep the crowds coming, spread the crowd load, keep wait times down, and no ones would rethink visiting WDW during "peak weeks".
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<What if you are flying in to Orlando in the morning and can only do one park every day? I know what my answer would be, but I would be curious to see yours based on your solution above.>> Or park hopping. I never hit DHS in the morning. I always save that park for afternoon and evening visits. I simply start the day elsewhere, hit DHS, then finally end the day back at EPCOT.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 The people I've gone with our first day is never spent at a park. We just spend time getting familiar with our hotel or usually would go to Downtown Disney for something to eat. The next day is when we'd make plans to get one of the parks early enough. Unless it was DHS and if that was the case then we'd just wait. And the last time I went you could pretty much walk onto ToT or RnRC
