Originally Posted By barboy2 Hey Spirit, did you ever experience the Tokyo Disney Resort 'retro' buses? If you did, then what differences did you notice when contrasted against the WDW transports? How about the monorail---did you check that out also?
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<<< ... and the way the park is tiered (levels ... something that could never work in WDW, land of the morbidly obese and the ECVs that carry them) >>>> Lol ... I felt the same way at DLP. I am so longing to visit TDS for all the reasons you are stating and thank you for continuing to post your thoughts. I like the intelligence and sensibility you offer in your perspective. You see the parks from an artist point of view. I love good design totally triggers my sense of "play" and allows me to feel like I am participating in some interactive theater. The way you swoon over TDS is how I felt about the design and feel of DLP. The multiple levels were so exciting. I also loved in Europe the strollers and EMV were very scarce. Growing up, I remember hearing from my parents we couldn't go here or there unless we were able to handle it (walk) on our own. And we kept to our home schedules even on vacation. In other words-bed time was bed time. How manta five year olds are having melt downs on main st at midnight when they should be in bed. I ramble and digress .... Levels .... Yeah ... I get and love the whole multiple-level thing
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Well, that can't be right. I'm certain the Sheraton Tokyo Bay has decent sized accomodations. >>> Yep. The TDR Sheraton has some rooms that have 2 double beds AND 2 single beds (4 beds total) for around $250/night in the off season, and it's right on the monorail loop. I know the Palm & Fountain Terrace hotels (OLC but non-Disney hotels a couple of miles away from the resort) also have 4-bed rooms at cheaper prices. The Sheraton would be my recommendation in general for foreign visitors, but especially those that need a high-occupancy room. But you're right - in general, it's going to be difficult to accommodate a Western family of 2 adults and 3 kids in a single room in Japan.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I personally find it difficult to recommend four days at Tokyo Disney for most people (particularly people who are visiting on a first, or even more particularly "once in a lifetime" trip). IF it's a full two week trip with no long side trips (in other words, the other 10 days are dedicated to Tokyo and the nearby surroundings), then I'm cool with recommending four days. But any shorter, and I start to feel as though it's giving short shrift to the Japan experience to recommend spending so much time at Disney. >>> Mr X and I differ a bit on this piece of advice, and I wanted to go into it a bit further, since it does come up quite a bit and there's no one right answer. <<< So for people who've already been to Disney parks elsewhere, I recommend spending the bulk of their time in Tokyo and exploring Japan and only 2-3 days at TDR maximum if they've got a tight schedule. >>> It all depends on the individual situation. For the Disney Park fan, I stick by my advice that you need at least 4 days in the parks to do TDR justice. If you're enough of a Disney park fan that TDR is one of your primary motives for visiting Japan, then I don't think it's unreasonable to spend a lot of time there. Put another way, I don't think you should feel "guilty" that you spend several days/nights at TDR, just because some other folks that don't have the same Disney park passion as you do might think otherwise. I think a first-time visitor can easily take full advantage of a 5-night resort stay (giving 4 full days in the parks), and 6 nights would not be too long (giving 4 full days in the parks, and one day to just hang out, see Zed, etc.). Any more than that is probably pushing it. BUT, I give the above advice only within the context of saying that your TDR stay should only be at most half your stay in Japan on a first-time visit. No matter how much you like Disney parks, if you manage to get yourself to Tokyo to visit TDR, you really would be doing yourself a disservice to not see Tokyo and Japan itself, even if you're not otherwise very interested. As Mr X said, for many people, such a trip will be a "once in a lifetime" trip, and would be a shame for it to be mostly limited to TDR. So, here’s how I’d boil down my advice: if you’re a big Disney theme park fan and are visiting TDR for the first time, then spend up to 5 or 6 nights at the resort, but no more than half your stay in Japan. So, if you’re in country only 6 nights, no more than 3 at TDR. If you’re in-country 12+ nights, no more than 6 at TDR. Let me re-quote Mr X: <<< So for people who've already been to Disney parks elsewhere, I recommend spending the bulk of their time in Tokyo and exploring Japan and only 2-3 days at TDR maximum if they've got a tight schedule. >>> I’d say, if you haven’t been to other Disney parks, *completely skip* TDR on a first-time Japan visit. Or, if you’re only a very casual Disney park fan (especially if you have kids with you), then consider a single-day visit with no on-site hotel stay. All of my prior advice is targeted toward the Disney theme park fan (which is the only audience likely to ever read these postings), and not travelers to Japan in general. <<< NOT saying Disney isn't worth it, or doesn't require four days or so (it really does!), but it's a matter of priorities, and for me seeing the "real" Japan is a lot more important and very time consuming (there's so much to take in!). >>> There sure is. The way I’d address this is that each person should do what they feel is right for them, within reason. I guess what I’m trying to do is to “give permission” to those that might feel that they want to spend 5-6 nights (4-5 solid days) at TDR on a first visit to be able to do so without feeling guilty. Most people that don’t “get” Disney will say that even 1 hour at TDR is a total waste on a first-time visit to Japan. Ignore them. But at the same time, it would be disappointing to hear that someone visited Japan for the first time and spent all their time at TDR.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Well, TDR's first impression is one you don't hear gushing fanbois talk much about because, frankly, it is urban, industrial and just plain ugly. It is easiest the ugliest entrance of any Disney Resort ... though Anaheim would have been in the same category pre-DCA/DD/urban renewal of 2001. You travel on either a freeway surrounded by mostly trucks heading to the port or an elevated subway to get out to the resort. I couldn't help but notice (from my Good Neighbor motorcoach, which blows away WDW buses) trash tossed out by motorists all along the side of the road. I also was pretty shocked to see homeless people living under said highway (I mean, it isn't the USA, after all). It doesn't set you up for magic unless you keep your eyes on the video looping on the bus, which has no Stacy Aswad but is entertaining the first 4-5 times you see it. And understand this, TDR is plopped down in this ugly area. Suddenly, you see a fairytale castle, a white dome, an old hotel building and a giant volcano on the horizon. Then, you are there. >>> So many things come to mind from what you wrote. First of all, I’d say that part of the issue in your situation is your choice of staying off-site at a Good Neighbor hotel. Despite the free shuttle, the Good Neighbor hotels are at least 5 miles from the resort, which means at least a 5-mile daily commute between your hotel and the resort. It’s true that that they can be substantially cheaper than on-site accommodations, but the location is part of the bargain. Imagine if you stayed off-site at WDW at a hotel that was 5 miles on the other side of Kissimmee from WDW: you’d certainly have a negative opinion of the view during your twice-daily bus ride, no matter how nice the bus was. You’d have a jarring transition between the real world and the Disney world in each direction each day. As to the location of TDR within its metro area, this is worthy of some discussion. I’d say that each Disney resort is unique in this aspect, due to local conditions. Although TDR is not in Tokyo proper, it is within 2 miles of the city limits. It was planned in the 1970’s. Imagine trying to locate an undeveloped plot of land big enough for 2 parks, parking, shopping, and about 10 hotels within 2 miles of NYC – it would be very difficult. Locating a plot of land even a small fraction of WDW’s size that close to a major city would be impossible at any price, let alone one reasonable to make the project viable. One thing to keep in mind about TDR is that the majority of park guests do not stay on site, but are day visitors that travel to the resort from their homes within the Tokyo metro area. TDR’s visitor demographics are much closer to Anaheim’s than they are to Orlando’s in this regard. I’m sure that OLC could have sited TDR somewhere “out in the country” an hour away from Tokyo if they wanted to and had much more land available for development, but it was not built to be a vacation destination resort in the sense that WDW or DLP were. Being located where it is, it is a convenient day visit to tens of millions of people. So, with that in mind, being only 2 miles from the Tokyo city limits, the approaches and immediate surroundings of TDR are somewhat urban. But once you are at the resort, they do a really good job of making you feel that you are separated from that. There’s essentially *no* external intrusions into TDL, and to the extent that you can see Tokyo Bay and some bridges from TDS, it’s all part of the story, as they make those views part of the lands from which they’re visible. So, other than the “miles of green” that you have on-site at WDW, I think it’s pretty much the same between WDW and TDR: If you stay off-site, you’re going to have daily intrusions of the outside real world as part of your visit. If you stay on-site (which probably will cost more), then you will be “within the bubble” to a greater degree and have a more controlled environment.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***someone visited Japan for the first time and spent all their time at TDR*** Or even someone who spent all their time "except for one night saved for the city". SD and I do sort of differ on the above advice, I'm happy to lay on the guilt to people who neglect seeing the country in favor of tons of Disney time...if time is an object, you can spend TWO days at Tokyo Disney and feel comfortable with having seen the highlights (keeping in mind seeing all the truly unique stuff and not worrying about riding Thunder Mountain if you've already ridden it in Florida, etc...). For a true Disney fan, that's a tough pill to swallow. But I certainly believe that spending lots of time absorbing the culture, sights, tastes, and all the rest of Japan is well worth the trade-off IF necessary (in a perfect world, we can all travel to Japan for a month or more and spend plenty of time at Tokyo Disneyland along the way but that's not realistic for many). I do appreciate the "no more than" caveat, I would say that spending HALF of your time at Disney, on any trip save Orlando, is probably too much time spent at Disney.
Originally Posted By Mr X Enjoyed reading some excellent comments there in post 307 by SuperDry. Whereas Walt Disney, back in the 50's, built up his Magic Kingdom among the orange groves (only to be later disappointed by all the build-up), in the Tokyo Disneyland case it was very much a "build it in the city somehow" sort of proposition. And they DO pull off a pretty good facsimile of "elsewhere" within the resort (and it has only gotten better over the years, most particularly with the new Tokyo Disneyland Hotel which shields Disneyland from the urban beyond very nicely and sort of encompasses the resort very well). And as SD mentioned, instead of considering Tokyo Bay to be a hindrance, they turned it into a strength by building DisneySea which just turns it into all kinds of Disney awesomeness. YES, entering the resort is an urban scene, there's no doubt. But as SD mentions, there's really no way NOT to do so so close to one of the biggest cities on the planet. (side note, I'm not sure they ever could've built elsewhere though...it's my understanding that OLC owned that land from times past and planned to build SOME sort of "recreation area" there, whether it be a Disney park, or not, and there really wasn't ever any thought towards building a Disney park someplace else...that's my understanding anyway, and it sort of accompanies the fact that the OLC did approach Walt Disney himself somewhat earlier in the game to ask him about building a "Tokyo Disneyland" with the land they had in mind)
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct Part of the problem with visiting TDR is there is no park hopping option on your first two days of a visit. It sort of forces you to stay three days to get the last day as park hopper. I would do TDR for three days (maybe two) and spend the rest of my time seeing the culture. When I went to DLP the first time, I did a one day visit from my Paris hotel. My third visit, I finally booked an over night at DLP and went back to the paris hotel for the remaining trip. I would do the same for TDR. In reality, you need to adjust to the time and settle In before you have your wits about you. After that adjustment and some time visiting and understanding the culture, then I would visit TDR. I found that visiting Paris before my DLP visit helped me appreciate the design choices and construction. DLP "feels" European with European sensibilities and you only "get that" after visiting the surrounding culture. A city visit puts the Disney resort in context I think. I will never apologize for being a Disney geek and I got criticized for even going to DLP but hey - it's what I wanted to do ....
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo No one should ever criticise people for going to DLP IMHO. I talked Lulu into it, she wasn't going to bother, but she was glad I did. this is my it pisses me off so much when Europeans write of DLP and go to the crapfest that is the MK loving it. Sure, the MK is ok if you have never been to another Disney resort, but really, the MK and HKDL do fight for the lowest experience of a MK park.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Part of the problem with visiting TDR is there is no park hopping option on your first two days of a visit. >>> For the first-time visitor, I think this ticketing issue has been WAY overblown. As many of us have said, and Spirit recently confirmed, each park easily takes two days to see everything. So, if you have only a 2-day resort visit, being limited to one park each day is not at all a hindrance - you'll not run out of things to see or really feel that you need to hop over to the other park. Also, if you make the in-park entertainment a big part of your visit (which you should, even if you otherwise are not into Disney parades and shows), it's difficult to see everything a park has to offer without staying all day and into the evening. <<< It sort of forces you to stay three days to get the last day as park hopper. >>> This is kind of an odd notion, almost as if a park hopper is a goal in of itself and a trip would not be complete unless you get one, so much so that you'd actually spend an extra day at the resort just to do so. I don't understand it. I agree that by the third day, you'd probably want a park hopper, since you'd have a lot of the major attractions and shows/parades taken care of, and might need to split your schedule to catch the things you missed or the things you really wanted to see again. But I see this as a need irrespective of whether you had hopping privileges on the first two days. In fact, you probably get more done the first two days by NOT being able to park hop, since you don't spend time going between the two parks, can optimize FP for the whole day, etc. I think part of the issue is that when most people hear of the "no park hopping until the third consecutive day" rule for TDR, they put it in context of their experience at WDW. At WDW, imagine if you had only a 2- or 3-day visit. Of course you'd want the flexibility to park hop on each day. But part of this is due to your familiarity with WDW. If had only 2 days to spend there and had never been before, you could easily do a full day at MK, and a full day at Epcot, and not feel that you were "stuck" in a park when you wanted to go elsewhere. In fact, if I was giving advice for a 2-day visit to a WDW newbie, I would suggest exactly that, and say they're better off doing that than getting a park hopper and trying to see all 4 parks in 2 days. Also, there are a few other WDW-specific factors that make park-hopping desirable on most days that do not apply to TDR: - There's no rotating schedule of morning or evening "extra magic hours." WDW regulars know to avoid the MK like a plague on the afternoons where the MK had morning extra magic hours, and if you're staying on-site, to take advantage of the morning MK EMH, then move on to another park by noon. No such issue at TDR. - There's no wide variance of park hours. For 80% of the year, both parks close at 10pm seven days a week, and during the off season of Jan-Feb, the difference is often only an hour. For example, for today (Jan 16), TDL closes at 8pm, and TDS at 7pm. If you stayed at TDS and rode your last ride at closing, you might not even be able to get over to TDL until 7:45pm, making a hopper more or less pointless. Compare this to today's WDW closing schedule: DAK at 5pm, DHS at 8pm, Epcot at 9pm, and MK at 11pm (or 2am with EMH). If today was your day at DAK or DHS, you might feel really short-changed if you didn't have a park hopper. - All major entertainment programs are offered 7 days as week, even during the off season. That includes all day and night parades, inside and outside stage shows, special event shows, etc. The only things that might be off 2 days a week are the some of the minor things like the restaurant musicians, marching band, etc. So, you don't have a situation like you do at WDW where F! is offered only two nights a week, thus making DHS packed on those days, such that if you want to see F!, you'd be wise to visit ANOTHER park on F! days and then show up in the evening just for F! Gee, have I made my point? If not, I at least had my say I just don't think the park hopping situation is at all an issue for overseas visitors that have at least 2 days to spend at TDR. Don't let it worry you at all.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Part of the problem with visiting TDR is there is no park hopping option on your first two days of a visit. It sort of forces you to stay three days to get the last day as park hopper*** Compared to Orlando where it's quite useful, and California where it's just ridiculously easy, I would say Dennis that parkhopping is not very important in Tokyo. What with the roster of shows and events occurring throughout the day in either park, plus the surprisingly large distances involved (probably consumes at least 20 minutes to park hop, more if on foot), it just doesn't seem worth it to me...in fairness, I've actually never done it unless you count from backstage lol. (from there, it's MUCH easier than it is for paying customers, the parks are sort of like back-to-back siamese twins, and sort of share a lot of backstage space as well, the Sindbad attraction is remarkably close to It's a Small World, for example) So I would say it's not really worth the trouble to jump through their hoops (having to go on consecutive days seems overly restrictive to me) unless you're really intent on saving those relatively few bucks. Rather, I would suggest going for three days and simply deciding which park will get the second day, and then you don't have to go consecutively or anything like that. Makes for a much more leisurely experience, and if you don't pre-purchase tickets (a fairly dangerous practice during busy times, so study up!), you might even decide the third day isn't necessary, or opt for a couple of "after three" passports so as to enjoy both parks one more time, spending the days in the city or around the resort...just the need for parkhopping doesn't seem to be a big one in Tokyo in my experience. Others may differ (SD and Spirit both used the parkhopping option I believe, so they can talk more about its' relative usefulness than I).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Gee, have I made my point?*** Oh yes. Several paragraphs ago, in fact. ;p ***if you want to see F!, you'd be wise to visit ANOTHER park on F! days and then show up in the evening just for F!*** Motion to officially change this acronym to "Fan!", all in favor?
Originally Posted By SuperDry About the only time I find park-hopping useful on multi-day stays is when I really want to see a particular show again, or perhaps missed a show because it was canceled due to bad weather on the day I originally planned to see it. On my last visit in September, I made it a point to see BraviSEAmo! as many times as I could, since I knew it would be the last chance I ever had to do so. So, on at least one evening, after a day at TDL, I went over to TDS for the show. But for the most part, it's not an issue. Also, for 3 years, I had a 2-park AP, which allows you to park hop every day. Lots of regular locals go that route, and that's especially useful because they may be going on a certain day just to see whatever the new seasonal entertainment is at both parks, and may not even get on a ride unless time permits. But now with the bad exchange rate and price increase putting 2-park AP's at over $900 a year, I haven't been able to justify one recently.
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///This is kind of an odd notion, almost as if a park hopper is a goal in of itself and a trip would not be complete unless you get one, so much so that you'd actually spend an extra day at the resort just to do so./// Yep. The park hopping feature is far more important to have at DLR and especially WDW for guests like me because those are my home parks/resorts and I've been to them many times over. But for those who don't get over to Tokyo very often(like me) or it's their maiden voyage then 'hopping' just isn't needed nearly as much as when touring one's 'home' resorts as Disney Sea and Tokyo DL can keep one mighty happy for an entire day, if not 2 or 3.
Originally Posted By barboy2 Ya, those differing operational hours and show schedules justify hopping at WDW so much more---- you offered a solid point, SD
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But for those who don't get over to Tokyo very often(like me) or it's their maiden voyage then 'hopping' just isn't needed nearly as much as when touring one's 'home' resorts as Disney Sea and Tokyo DL can keep one mighty happy for an entire day, if not 2 or 3*** Tokyo has been my "home resort" for 12 years, and I've never felt any need to park hop. As a matter of fact, I've never even gone to the parks (as a guest, anyway) 2 days in a row (a few times I've been to one or the other within a week or two though). When I was living in Florida, though, parkhopping felt essential...I definitely think I'd have tired of the place pretty quickly if I were limited to one park per day. Just an entirely different vibe (not to mention the fact that, aside from Epcot, the other three parks get rather boring after multiple visits and it's more fun to spend a few hours than an entire day).
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< (side note, I'm not sure they ever could've built elsewhere though...it's my understanding that OLC owned that land from times past and planned to build SOME sort of "recreation area" there, whether it be a Disney park, or not, and there really wasn't ever any thought towards building a Disney park someplace else...that's my understanding anyway >>> That's mostly my understanding - that OLC was set up to develop the Shin-Urayasu area, with a major component of that being the resort area, and only at a certain point into the game did the notion that it could be a Disney resort really take hold. You're right - if not a Disney resort, OLC would have done something else with the land, probably a "roll your own" amusement park with some other facilities. Actually, I just uncovered a fairly extensive history of the project on the OLC website that has been added only recently. Check out the thread in the Tokyo section.
