Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Wherever there's a Hilton/Hampton Inn, I'm happy. LOL. >> There's a highly-rated Hilton right at TDR. It was somewhere I came very close to staying at ... no Hamptons in Japan as far as I know. <<301 Hotel Hunting Dalmatians>> Um ... it doesn't really count when it's post 302. ~Yes, that's Pepper and I stole him~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Hey Spirit, did you ever experience the Tokyo Disney Resort 'retro' buses? If you did, then what differences did you notice when contrasted against the WDW transports? How about the monorail---did you check that out also?>> Yes. Not only checked them out but actually bought the holiday miniature versions of them (sadly, not much else was bought). Love the retro buses or 'resort cruisers' as they are called, complete with 'Obvious Mickey' exhaust pipes. Rode the monorail one night when I went back to the resort to dine at the DLH and shop at Bon Voyage (should have called it Bust Voyage since I left with 80% of my budgeted cash remaining ... notice how merchandise was my biggest disappointment). It's great because it is a REAL transport system (one you pay for ... although I believe it is included if you stay at one of the three Disney hotels? X? SuperDry?). It's always running. No traffic holds. It is incredibly clean and efficient. The views are not all great, but I loved seeing the resort from the rails. Gave some added perspective to how/where everything is in relation. Also, the stations were very nicely decked out for Christmas too. ~Hidden Spirit Fact 147: The Spirit has an imaginary kitty named 'Pickles'~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<<< ... and the way the park is tiered (levels ... something that could never work in WDW, land of the morbidly obese and the ECVs that carry them) >>>> <<Lol ... I felt the same way at DLP. I am so longing to visit TDS for all the reasons you are stating and thank you for continuing to post your thoughts. I like the intelligence and sensibility you offer in your perspective. You see the parks from an artist point of view.>> Thanks, Dennis. That's really one of the nicest things said about me here ... <<I love good design totally triggers my sense of "play" and allows me to feel like I am participating in some interactive theater. The way you swoon over TDS is how I felt about the design and feel of DLP. The multiple levels were so exciting.>> Anyone who loves DLP will go ga-ga (no meat dress required) over TDS. The design and details are works of art. Honestly, you'd never figure the company that built DCA and DSP was also responsible for DLP and TDS. <<I also loved in Europe the strollers and EMV were very scarce. Growing up, I remember hearing from my parents we couldn't go here or there unless we were able to handle it (walk) on our own. And we kept to our home schedules even on vacation. In other words-bed time was bed time. How manta five year olds are having melt downs on main st at midnight when they should be in bed. I ramble and digress .... Levels .... Yeah ... I get and love the whole multiple-level thing >> Tis OK. Digression is something the Spirit knows well and is good for the soul. ~Should The Spirit just be Spirit?~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Yep. The TDR Sheraton has some rooms that have 2 double beds AND 2 single beds (4 beds total) for around $250/night in the off season, and it's right on the monorail loop. I know the Palm & Fountain Terrace hotels (OLC but non-Disney hotels a couple of miles away from the resort) also have 4-bed rooms at cheaper prices. The Sheraton would be my recommendation in general for foreign visitors, but especially those that need a high-occupancy room.>> The general consensus I found was the Sheraton and the Hilton are the best places for folks looking for larger western style hotels that are spitting distance from the parks. I think Sheraton gets props for its beds while Hilton for having Starbucks. I never got to check out either, just saw them from monorail and bus. <<But you're right - in general, it's going to be difficult to accommodate a Western family of 2 adults and 3 kids in a single room in Japan.>> Um ... did Dave add another child when I wasn't paying attention?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<BUT, I give the above advice only within the context of saying that your TDR stay should only be at most half your stay in Japan on a first-time visit. No matter how much you like Disney parks, if you manage to get yourself to Tokyo to visit TDR, you really would be doing yourself a disservice to not see Tokyo and Japan itself, even if you're not otherwise very interested. As Mr X said, for many people, such a trip will be a "once in a lifetime" trip, and would be a shame for it to be mostly limited to TDR. So, here’s how I’d boil down my advice: if you’re a big Disney theme park fan and are visiting TDR for the first time, then spend up to 5 or 6 nights at the resort, but no more than half your stay in Japan. So, if you’re in country only 6 nights, no more than 3 at TDR. If you’re in-country 12+ nights, no more than 6 at TDR. >> I think that's excellent advice. I had 11 days, but I really consider it 10 because I got in at 9:30 one night. I spent four full days at TDR and maybe 1/3rd of another ... and a quick lunch at Ikspiari with Mr. X and Little X. Five days were largely spent in Tokyo and surrounding areas. I feel I saw a great deal of TDR, and got a great tasting of Tokyo. I can't imagine doing things differently for a first time. Now, when I return (later this year) I do expect to do things somewhat differently. Definitely won't be doing two full days at TDL. And hope to see other parts of Tokyo and spread out to areas further afield. But I still can't see folks doing more than five days at the parks maximum ... even if they have 2-3 weeks in Japan. At some point, it just becomes overkill. ~My feet are cold~
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< It's great because it is a REAL transport system (one you pay for ... although I believe it is included if you stay at one of the three Disney hotels? X? SuperDry?). >>> You get a free unlimited use monorail pass for each registered guest if you stay at the Hotel MiraCosta or the TDLH (but not the Ambassador, as the monorail isn't really that convenient to its location). The Official hotels, such as the Sheraton and Hilton, used to also give out such passes, but they stopped doing so some 5+ years ago. Still, it's not that expensive. A 4-day unlimited pass is 1100 yen, or about $13, and they have shorter passes for less money. So, it doesn't really add much to the cost of a stay.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<So many things come to mind from what you wrote.>> Then, I have done what I set out to do! ;-) <<First of all, I’d say that part of the issue in your situation is your choice of staying off-site at a Good Neighbor hotel. Despite the free shuttle, the Good Neighbor hotels are at least 5 miles from the resort, which means at least a 5-mile daily commute between your hotel and the resort. It’s true that that they can be substantially cheaper than on-site accommodations, but the location is part of the bargain.>> The location was great. No issues with it at all. So much to see and do in the area. SO many dining options to walk to. Subway right outside. Convenient to a lot. <<Imagine if you stayed off-site at WDW at a hotel that was 5 miles on the other side of Kissimmee from WDW: you’d certainly have a negative opinion of the view during your twice-daily bus ride, no matter how nice the bus was. You’d have a jarring transition between the real world and the Disney world in each direction each day.>> Not so much, really. Kissimmee, even the ugly, low-rent East Irlo Bronson (192) area has plenty of greenery and isn't industrial. And once you hit World Drive, well you become insulated from the outside to some extent (until 15 years ago or so) it was a great extent. Not so with TDR. When you get there, there you be. There's no big transition or even small. You just go from industrial port type area to the Disneyland Hotel, bus depot, monorail station and Bon Voyage with subway and Ikspiari a short walk. <<As to the location of TDR within its metro area, this is worthy of some discussion. I’d say that each Disney resort is unique in this aspect, due to local conditions. Although TDR is not in Tokyo proper, it is within 2 miles of the city limits. It was planned in the 1970’s. Imagine trying to locate an undeveloped plot of land big enough for 2 parks, parking, shopping, and about 10 hotels within 2 miles of NYC – it would be very difficult. Locating a plot of land even a small fraction of WDW’s size that close to a major city would be impossible at any price, let alone one reasonable to make the project viable.>> I get that. And I also have seen pics from when TDL was being developed and its first 5-10 years and there seemed to be a whole lot more space around it (much like every Disney resort). And my comments weren't critical ones, they were matter of fact because I think many American fanbois who want to go (AND SHOULD!) would likely be shocked at how ugly some of the area immediately surrounding the resort really is. Even my good friend, a huge TDLFAN, agrees with me on this. <<One thing to keep in mind about TDR is that the majority of park guests do not stay on site, but are day visitors that travel to the resort from their homes within the Tokyo metro area. TDR’s visitor demographics are much closer to Anaheim’s than they are to Orlando’s in this regard. I’m sure that OLC could have sited TDR somewhere “out in the country” an hour away from Tokyo if they wanted to and had much more land available for development, but it was not built to be a vacation destination resort in the sense that WDW or DLP were. Being located where it is, it is a convenient day visit to tens of millions of people. So, with that in mind, being only 2 miles from the Tokyo city limits, the approaches and immediate surroundings of TDR are somewhat urban. But once you are at the resort, they do a really good job of making you feel that you are separated from that. There’s essentially *no* external intrusions into TDL, and to the extent that you can see Tokyo Bay and some bridges from TDS, it’s all part of the story, as they make those views part of the lands from which they’re visible.>> That is true ... with a few exceptions, they've done a phenomenal job of keeping the outside out and blending some of it (namely Tokyo Bay at TDS) into appearing to be part of the resort. <<So, other than the “miles of green” that you have on-site at WDW, I think it’s pretty much the same between WDW and TDR: If you stay off-site, you’re going to have daily intrusions of the outside real world as part of your visit. If you stay on-site (which probably will cost more), then you will be “within the bubble” to a greater degree and have a more controlled environment.>> Agreed. I've really just come to the conclusion that in most cases world-wide you aren't getting enough value to stay at Disney resorts for what their price points are. I work very hard for what little I make in our 21st century new American reality and that means I just can't justify $700 a night for a standard hotel room ... or half that. I'm headed to WDW soon and I'll be using Priceline ... I see folks are getting rooms at Gaylord Palms for $45 a night. That is the type of deal that makes sense to me. Not calling Disney and playing games all to get a room at the BW for the 'low-low' price of maybe $259 a night. ~Am I the only Spirit who thinks Will Smith is vastly overrated as a 'talent'?~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<SD and I do sort of differ on the above advice, I'm happy to lay on the guilt to people who neglect seeing the country in favor of tons of Disney time...if time is an object, you can spend TWO days at Tokyo Disney and feel comfortable with having seen the highlights (keeping in mind seeing all the truly unique stuff and not worrying about riding Thunder Mountain if you've already ridden it in Florida, etc...).>> Have you ridden BTMRR in FLA recently? OK, I know the answer. But I have ... and I have in TDL, of which I am so thankful of. The thing has never looked worse in MK (many effects not working, holes in the mountain with giant black tarps etc). I am so very glad I rode in TDL because it's very similar to MK version only in 100% condition (and has a few extra effects tossed in too). ~Pitching a new comedy: The New Adventures of Old Spirit, any thoughts?~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Part of the problem with visiting TDR is there is no park hopping option on your first two days of a visit. It sort of forces you to stay three days to get the last day as park hopper.>> Well, take my advice for whatever it is worth here, Dennis. I don't like OLC's ticketing policies and find them to be very guest unfriendly in numerous ways. That said, as a first-time visitor I'd advise four full days in the parks because, frankly, it worked to near perfection for me. And the park-hopping option is ... well, let's just say I didn't hop at all and was happy I didn't. Monday I went to TDL, Tuesday I went to TDS, Wednesday was back at TDL and Thursday was back at TDS. Park-hopping isn't as convenient as you'd think at TDR, despite the fact the parks are built up against each other. It isn't as easy as DL (the best) or DLP (close second) where you can walk in very quick time from one to the other. Now, it isn't as inconvenient as WDW either. I just never felt the need to hop. It would have killed more time than it is worth and even though TDS is BY FAR the park you want to see, as a first-timer I do absolutely think TDL is worth two full days for any Disney fan (unless they only can do three days in which it should be two at TDS and one at TDL). But I really would advise against hopping at TDR. <<I would do TDR for three days (maybe two) and spend the rest of my time seeing the culture. When I went to DLP the first time, I did a one day visit from my Paris hotel. My third visit, I finally booked an over night at DLP and went back to the paris hotel for the remaining trip. I would do the same for TDR.>> Then, my advice would be two at TDS and one at TDL ... and if you don't mind paying extra (because OLC DEMANDS you use the days consecutively come hell, high water, illness, plague etc), I'd likely go for a two-day pass at first with TDL first (I may be anal here, but I just think you have to start a Disney resort first visit by visiting the first park) and TDS the next day, then spend time in Tokyo and come back for another day at TDS after you've had a few days or more away. <<In reality, you need to adjust to the time and settle In before you have your wits about you. After that adjustment and some time visiting and understanding the culture, then I would visit TDR.>> I agree. I didn't go to TDR until my third day in Tokyo. Rushing out generally isn't smart. <<I found that visiting Paris before my DLP visit helped me appreciate the design choices and construction. DLP "feels" European with European sensibilities and you only "get that" after visiting the surrounding culture. A city visit puts the Disney resort in context I think. I will never apologize for being a Disney geek and I got criticized for even going to DLP but hey - it's what I wanted to do .... >> You shouldn't have to apologize. People go visit what they like. I don't tell people how/where they should travel unless they ask ... now, it doesn't mean I think folks who opt for 10 days at the BW every August as their only travel aren't nuts either! ~I miss Spoodles~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<No one should ever criticise people for going to DLP IMHO. I talked Lulu into it, she wasn't going to bother, but she was glad I did. this is my it pisses me off so much when Europeans write of DLP and go to the crapfest that is the MK loving it.>> Part of that, especially with UKers is threefold: 1.) they love the FLA climate (obviously, this doesn't apply to you ... although it's been quite nice the last two days); 2.) they get a lot of bang for their buck because the pound has pounded the dollar in the currency dept. like a $10 hooker! and; 3.) they hate the French people, France and are fighting wars from the 1600s. <<Sure, the MK is ok if you have never been to another Disney resort, but really, the MK and HKDL do fight for the lowest experience of a MK park.>> Hey, dude, don't be hating on my lovely little Lantau park (I really feel like a local there now, scary!) until you visit. It blows MK away in so many areas like cleanliness, upkeep, CMs, entertainment, freshness, show quality (attraction wise), Chinese food (OK, that was a joke, but true anyway) and seasonal offerings. Honestly, if the place only had 5-6 more real attractions, I'd say it could easily be considered much better than MK. ~Where's MY DUFFY!??!?!?!?!?~
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I have more to say about Spirit's $60/night hotel, but it will have to wait. >>> I do want to make a final comment on this, and then I'll be quiet on the subject. It sounds like the Spirit got a really good deal on his hotel: $60/night for a location that was convenient for exploring Tokyo AND was a TDR Good Neighbor hotel with a free shuttle to/from the resort. That's a hard price to beat. Spirit, was that for single or double occupancy? One reason this is important is that unlike hotels in North America, it's not unusual for a hotel in Japan to quote a rate for one guest, and you get a room that really only can accommodate one person (that is, it may have only one single bed). Even if the room has two beds, or a double bed, the tariff if you occupy it with two people might be almost double the single-occupancy rate. So, if you have two or more people that could potentially share a room, then that can change the equation substantially. Also, something that Spirit said about the monorail really stood out to me: <<< Rode the monorail one night when I went back to the resort to dine at the DLH and shop at Bon Voyage >>> For me, staying on-site, the monorail is an integral part of the visit. Instead of a 35-minute bus ride to/from the hotel (that operates on a limited schedule) and the jarring transition from urbanity to resort twice each day, I get to ride the always-on-time monorail, that leaves every 4 minutes during peak hours, and operates 6am - midnight daily. Not only do they always depart on schedule (and yes, there is a schedule), the schedule is set to vary based on park operating hours and anticipated crowds. I have probably ridden it 200 times over the years, and never once has there been an unexpected delay, "waiting for traffic clearance", or even a situation where I had to wait in line and was unable to board the very next train. Even though most guests to TDS use the monorail, there just doesn't seem to be an end-of-night cluster of a long line like there is at MK closing time. Anyway, I digress - I should have put this in a previous post. Here's a fairly representative way it's played out with several people I know that have visited TDR multiple times: On the first visit, they stay the entire time at a TDR hotel. Part of this that it's most convenient for the Disney portion of their visit, and on a first visit to Japan, especially for those that don't travel very much outside the US if at all, people really don't know what to expect, especially in a location that many people view as being exotic or perhaps challenging. So, there's a certain comfort factor at being able stay at the Disney resort, in a Disney hotel, or the Hilton or Sheraton. This works out great for the Disney portion, but when it takes upward of an hour each way to get from the hotel into town where they want to go, and especially the "last train" issue (see below), they say "Gee, it kinda sucks staying at the resort when visiting Tokyo." Then, comes the inevitable second trip the following year. Even though they didn't know what to expect of Japan or TDR, they're hooked after the first visit, and come back at the next opportunity. This time, they're fascinated enough with Tokyo that they decide to stay in town for their entire trip, and commute to TDR on the Disney days. This ends up being very convenient for in-town days, but for Disney days, they realize, "Gee, this sucks, compared to how nice it was last time when we stayed on site!" Invariably, they settle on a split itinerary for future visits. I've done it both ways myself, and seen enough others go through the various phases that I'm pretty confident in my advice. Having said all that, I can't really discount Spirit's experience as having been a bad choice. So, take it all for whatever it's worth. P.S.: "last train" - There is a concept in Japan called "last train." That's the last train for the day that departs your current location and will get you to your desired destination either directly or with connections before the trains shut down for the night. It's so pervasive a concept that almost any Japanese person will understand the term "last train" even if they don't otherwise speak English. Unlike some other cities, all trains, monorails, and subways are shut down at least from 1am-5am daily, sometimes more like 12am-6am depending on the line and station. If you happen to be on what I call the "west side" of Tokyo (which actually is just the west side of the core, even though the city continues on westward for many more miles) where a lot of the nighttime activities are, then the "last train" that will get you back to the resort might leave earlier than you like. For example, if you were in Shibuya, the "last train" to Bayside Station (the resort monorail station that has all the Official Hotels) is at 11:08pm from Shibuya Station. If you miss that, but get a subway no later than midnight, then you can at least get back to the resort, but the monorail will not be running, which means you have a 1+ mile walk to the hotel (or a short taxi ride). But if you miss the 12am subway, you're kind of stuck, as it will be a $100 taxi ride to get you back to the hotel, or you wait until 5am. And Tokyo is like Las Vegas or NYC - there's stuff going on all night long, so if you at all like to stay out at night and do things, staying at TDR is definitely a huge drag for your non-Disney days.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 And before I call it a night, just wanted to say SuperDry really nailed why park-hopping just isn't -- or shouldn't -- be an issue if you visit TDR. Post 312 hit all the bases ... ~J-E-T-S: JETS, JETS, JETS!~
Originally Posted By Mr X ***OK, I know the answer. But I have*** Well I don't know your definition of "recently" but I was there about 4 years ago - however, I honestly can't recall if we rode BTMR or not (probably not, since we had Tiny X in tow...I did make it a point to ride Everest, however). I do understand your point, and surely if time were completely a non-issue of course people should ride it (and everything else!), but my comment was to priorities for the person who has little time and has seen (at least) similar stuff elsewhere.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Well I don't know your definition of "recently" but I was there about 4 years ago >>> In other words, probably after the last refurb
Originally Posted By SuperDry Oh, BTW, I did track down the view figures for TDLH: fully 80% of the rooms have a park view, with only 20% facing the bay/freeway. So, they most definitely were aware of this issue and did all they could to address it.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But if you miss the 12am subway, you're kind of stuck, as it will be a $100 taxi ride to get you back to the hotel, or you wait until 5am*** Been there, done that. But I must say, you neglected to mention the cofffin er, "capsule" hotel option!
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>>There's a highly-rated Hilton right at TDR. It was somewhere I came very close to staying at ... no Hamptons in Japan as far as I know. <<301 Hotel Hunting Dalmatians>> Um ... it doesn't really count when it's post 302. ~Yes, that's Pepper and I stole him~<<< That Hilton? MINE. Sometime in the future. How are rates? And I got post 301, that's all that matters!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***That Hilton? MINE. Sometime in the future. How are rates?*** All told, I would say go with the Sheraton instead if you're aiming for TDR "on property" hotels. Unless you have special points or whatever with Hilton, in which case it's a nice enough place too (I like Sheraton at TDR better, it seems more inviting somehow and is closer to the monorail).
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///Park-hopping isn't as convenient as you'd think at TDR, despite the fact the parks are built up against each other./// That is very true.
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///The location was great. No issues with it at all. So much to see and do in the area. SO many dining options to walk to. Subway right outside. Convenient to a lot./// I might give that a try next visit since the Mira Costa lightened my billfold quite a bit last trip. If not the 'good neighbor' approach, then Hilton Tokyo Bay here I come.
